CLOSED Reoc Ban Re-appeal

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Inyerbones

Member
Aug 20, 2020
57
9
8
AriesMS
In-Game Name: Reoc | Naked
Job of Character: Kanna | HoYoung
Ban Reason: Botting
Reason of Appeal: For my case to be re-evaluated. I just want to say that I completely understand why botting-related issues are made to be so strict, as botting is something that should be discouraged and those involved in such activities should be punished heavily for committing such an offense, to make sure that nobody can give themselves an unfair advantage over other players in the game. I was saddened to see that my ban appeal for the account I was using as a Kishin mule got denied, all my other accounts I had access to got banned after the fact and that I was even banned from the AriesMS Discord for a first time offense (Though as far as I can tell, it was a false alarm). I'm trying my only remaining option that is not discouraged, which is a re-appeal, which I understand might not get me anywhere but I may as well try, and I hope you understand that my desire to be able to play the game again is very strong, especially when I believe I am innocent, with proof that I believe is credible. Upon scrolling through anything I could find that may help my case, I found this as a part of the Appeal Guidelines that Elyx posted:


  1. All bans are issued with reference to the Terms of Service and are on a case-by-case basis. Comparisons of ban outcomes on appeals are unnecessary and will only interfere with the reviewing process of your appeal.
I want to start off by stating that I apologise for missing out on specifically mentioning/making clear a point that might be important to the case, which is that Reoc was not banned during or immediately after the first or second bot tests, and it checks out because it is evident in the two images I attached that I entered the captchas correctly both times. To be clearer, I continued training for the next 10-20 minutes after successfully answering the second captcha bot test, and then I CC-ed to catch the MVP that I mentioned xObs was popping in the same map(Elite Labyrinth Cavern), but in Channel 12. I was there for a few seconds at most, pretty sure it was less than 10 seconds(because I had missed the MVP and wanted to go back to my channel ASAP to secure ownership of the map), and in this short timeframe Reoc wasn't left alone in the map either, my HS mule was also in the map, on the same exact same platform. The ban did not happen until I went back to the channel that Reoc was on (Channel 11). Upon re-entering Elite Labyrinth Cavern Channel 11, it was not until what felt like a few seconds after that I noticed the server-wide announcement for Reoc's ban, and as I looked over to the device that was running Reoc, the client was already frozen, and after a few seconds it was booted out of the game, into the server selection page (The page where we select Scania). Tried logging into Scania, ban prompt came up. So as far as I can tell, the ban was sudden and in conjunction with the fact that I was told that server announcements that start with [Notice] prefix are specifically staff-authorised, and that bans as a result from failed bot tests are announce with the [Autoban] prefix, this is the root cause of why I think there was a mistake, as on my end, it just seems like it was the decision of a member of staff to manually ban Reoc for the reason of botting after I had just successfully answered two bot tests not that long before the ban.

Seeing as bans are issued on a case-by-case basis, I figured I would try to bring up what I can that the AriesMS Staff may not have considered in previously finalising their decision to issue me with a permanent ban.

As I mentioned, I understand the severity of botting in the server and I agree that it should be dealt with in a strict manner. However, I believe that in my case, context should be taken into consideration before deciding on a final judgement. Not sure if this is a relevant comparison, but I'd like to think of it as how Windows Defender by default identifies the Aries client to be a Trojan, but in reality Aries is just something that Windows Defender does not properly recognise / acknowledge, and Aries is in fact not a Trojan. In my case, I believe the case is similar to what I just brought up, being that AriesMS' bot detection system detected that Reoc's character acted like it was botting, but it in fact was not.

Spyro stated that I was issued the ban for Botting, and under normal circumstances, it is difficult for the accused to come clean from being punished for botting. However, for my case, I was able to provide proof that I was infront of my computer, answering the two bot tests I received and the proof I attached clearly shows the position (that it was placed on the leftmost side of the map, not facing any enemies) of the character accused(Reoc) of Botting and provides what I believe to be good-enough context to prove that Reoc or was not used in any way that should be considered 'botting' according to AriesMS's Terms of Service, which states:

2.2. BOTTING
Botting refers to the simulation of automated attacks, chats, and/or movements. Usage of third-party hardware and/or physical objects to simulate such act(s) is not allowed. This is inclusive of (but not limited to) holding down skill key(s) whilst facing away from the Game window screen, using a heavy object to hold down certain key(s), passive class skills and/or skill summons (including class summons and/or boss soul summons). Punishments for the usage of third-party SOFTWARE constitutes under Hacking; where punishments listed for Botting will not be applicable for software usage.

I completely understand that the AriesMS Staff cannot just take my word for it, which is why I will try to explain my innocence to the best of my ability and have already provided all proof that I believe is relevant to my case, and will be more than happy to cooperate should the Staff require any more information that I have not already provided.

To elaborate(or maybe for certain points, re-elaborate), The bot tests I was issued on Reoc were captcha tests instead of the Violetta tests, both of which I am relatively familiar with as a player that manually farms/trains on my main character. Why this matters in my opinion is that unlike Violetta tests, captcha-type tests do not give the player a 15 second grace period to prepare for the bot test that is about to happen, and once the dialogue box for the captcha-test pops up, the player is unable to do anything with their characters, and the only thing the player can do is interact with the dialogue box for the captcha test. I'm bringing this up to emphasize that the position of Reoc in my attached images as proof is the actual position of the character for the majority of the duration of my training session. (With the exception of the few seconds or minutes that it may have been knocked off by an AFK mob or Elite mob, where it could end up being knocked off of the platform it is seen to be standing on in the images, but of course I move Reoc back to the platform whenever I can as it is the safe spot for Kishin/HS mules on Labyrinth Cavern that I can say with confidence basically everybody who trains there uses, regardless of whether the Kishin/HS mules are their own mules on separate devices OR if they were to buy said services from other players.)
Meaning, there is no way that I could have moved Reoc into a less suspicious position before I took the pictures as the bot test prompt was still on-screen, and I took the pictures with the intent of using them as proof should an issue like this arise, but I am again saddened to see that they did not seem to help with my initial ban appeal at all.


Throughout my training session, I was also being diligent by ensuring that no passive/toggled abilities that can damage monsters were turned on (in this case for a Kanna, I made sure Circle of Suppression was turned off, which is evident in the two images I attached.)

With that in mind, I would like to bring up and emphasize a few key points in why I am confident that I did not do anything that constitutes as 'botting'. I am not sure if the Staff team is able to verify, but as I have stated that the only possible mob that Reoc's Kishin could possibly hit while set up in that position is the AFK mob. If a way of verifying the total damage done by Reoc in the map is possible, I would like to bring up the fact that it would be miniscule, as it is a Kanna with about 16k stat, maybe 17k at MOST, and it clearly wasn't doing outrageously high damage(thought I would mention as I've seen counts of people getting banned for doing unreasonable amounts of damage for the funding they have) and I believe this can prove that Reoc was not used to bot in a way where it is set up to kill the monsters in the map without any manual input, which is what I believe is the reason for why botting is such a serious offense, as 'botting' would be used to make the character do a set of pre-determined tasks without any manual input from the player; giving the player an unfair advantage. If possible, I would like to also prove that I was not using a script or anything similar to have Kishin be activated automatically, which I understand also counts as 'botting', by requesting that the staff look into the intervals between each Kishin activation on Reoc. The intervals should be inconsistent and wildly varying, as it is manual input and I only manually activate it on the separate device whenever I notice that Kishin has expired. (Again, not sure if this is something that is possible for the staff to investigate, but I'll try my luck bringing it up anyway, in the event that it is possible.) Also, unsure about whether this matters, but Reoc's account actually was not mine to begin with, and I was given access to it after the original owner had quit earlier this year, in April or May I believe. I chose to use this account as a Kishin mule because Reoc already had 1.2k AF on it, and since I was training in EArc, an AF map, I figured it would be better to use this character since it is way less likely that it would die instead of a random level 200 Kishin mule. The original owner and I do not reside in the same country, and we only met through AriesMS. (Not sure if this detail provides insight on anything, but I just want to come clean.)

With that, hopefully I have emphasized enough on whatever points I have to be able to prove my innocence and to show that I was not using Reoc to do anything that might be considered to be botting.

I've had a good run with AriesMS over the last year, I first created my AriesMS account in 2016, though I only played for 1-2 months, I continued to vote for the server through the 4-5 years of me being inactive (I have over a thousand VP to prove this) and finally came back to play long-term in July 2020, exactly a year ago. I'd like to think that all this time, I've been a rule-abiding, free to play player that plays the game with honesty, and I try to be diligent in regards to whatever act is not allowed in the server. I have done endless hours of manual MP, a bit of FPQ and sold a bunch of leech once I could start doing so to make honest profits here, and I definitely did not spend all that hard work just to end up violating the ToS and losing everything. I am just trying to make a point that even though I am a free to play player who does not support the server in a direct manner, I have also not resorted to involve myself with 'botting' as a way to profit. I know that the next thing I'm about to say will most likely not be taken into consideration, but I'd like to just point out that anyone who knows me would know that as a player, I'm as clean as it gets and today I woke up to a bunch of concerned messages regarding my situation, and I appreciate you all.

I believe that I am truly innocent in this case, as I have been for the entire time I have been playing AriesMS. This is probably my final attempt to do what I can to be able to play AriesMS like I used to, I do not know what to expect from this but regardless of the outcome, I'd like to thank the Staff(s) involved for taking the time in re-reviewing my case and hopefully look at things from a different perspective than before.


Screenshot of Ban Message: Will be attaching the link to my previously denied ban appeal instead, to reduce the likelihood of confusion as a result of posting the same link multiple times to the related images. https://elluel.net/index.php?threads/reoc-ban-appeal.26379/
 
Last edited:

Spyro

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2018
4,869
892
113
Dragon's Cave
In-Game Name: Reoc | Naked
Job of Character: Kanna | HoYoung
Ban Reason: Botting
Reason of Appeal: For my case to be re-evaluated. I just want to say that I completely understand why botting-related issues are made to be so strict, as botting is something that should be discouraged and those involved in such activities should be punished heavily for committing such an offense, to make sure that nobody can give themselves an unfair advantage over other players in the game. I was saddened to see that my ban appeal for the account I was using as a Kishin mule got denied, all my other accounts I had access to got banned after the fact and that I was even banned from the AriesMS Discord for a first time offense (Though as far as I can tell, it was a false alarm). I'm trying my only remaining option that is not discouraged, which is a re-appeal, which I understand might not get me anywhere but I may as well try, and I hope you understand that my desire to be able to play the game again is very strong, especially when I believe I am innocent, with proof that I believe is credible. Upon scrolling through anything I could find that may help my case, I found this as a part of the Appeal Guidelines that Elyx posted:


  1. All bans are issued with reference to the Terms of Service and are on a case-by-case basis. Comparisons of ban outcomes on appeals are unnecessary and will only interfere with the reviewing process of your appeal.
I want to start off by stating that I apologise for missing out on specifically mentioning/making clear a point that might be important to the case, which is that Reoc was not banned during or immediately after the first or second bot tests, and it checks out because it is evident in the two images I attached that I entered the captchas correctly both times. To be clearer, I continued training for the next 10-20 minutes after successfully answering the second captcha bot test, and then I CC-ed to catch the MVP that I mentioned xObs was popping in the same map(Elite Labyrinth Cavern), but in Channel 12. I was there for a few seconds at most, pretty sure it was less than 10 seconds(because I had missed the MVP and wanted to go back to my channel ASAP to secure ownership of the map), and in this short timeframe Reoc wasn't left alone in the map either, my HS mule was also in the map, on the same exact same platform. The ban did not happen until I went back to the channel that Reoc was on (Channel 11). Upon re-entering Elite Labyrinth Cavern Channel 11, it was not until what felt like a few seconds after that I noticed the server-wide announcement for Reoc's ban, and as I looked over to the device that was running Reoc, the client was already frozen, and after a few seconds it was booted out of the game, into the server selection page (The page where we select Scania). Tried logging into Scania, ban prompt came up. So as far as I can tell, the ban was sudden and in conjunction with the fact that I was told that server announcements that start with [Notice] prefix are specifically staff-authorised, and that bans as a result from failed bot tests are announce with the [Autoban] prefix, this is the root cause of why I think there was a mistake, as on my end, it just seems like it was the decision of a member of staff to manually ban Reoc for the reason of botting after I had just successfully answered two bot tests not that long before the ban.

Seeing as bans are issued on a case-by-case basis, I figured I would try to bring up what I can that the AriesMS Staff may not have considered in previously finalising their decision to issue me with a permanent ban.

As I mentioned, I understand the severity of botting in the server and I agree that it should be dealt with in a strict manner. However, I believe that in my case, context should be taken into consideration before deciding on a final judgement. Not sure if this is a relevant comparison, but I'd like to think of it as how Windows Defender by default identifies the Aries client to be a Trojan, but in reality Aries is just something that Windows Defender does not properly recognise / acknowledge, and Aries is in fact not a Trojan. In my case, I believe the case is similar to what I just brought up, being that AriesMS' bot detection system detected that Reoc's character acted like it was botting, but it in fact was not.

Spyro stated that I was issued the ban for Botting, and under normal circumstances, it is difficult for the accused to come clean from being punished for botting. However, for my case, I was able to provide proof that I was infront of my computer, answering the two bot tests I received and the proof I attached clearly shows the position (that it was placed on the leftmost side of the map, not facing any enemies) of the character accused(Reoc) of Botting and provides what I believe to be good-enough context to prove that Reoc or was not used in any way that should be considered 'botting' according to AriesMS's Terms of Service, which states:

2.2. BOTTING
Botting refers to the simulation of automated attacks, chats, and/or movements. Usage of third-party hardware and/or physical objects to simulate such act(s) is not allowed. This is inclusive of (but not limited to) holding down skill key(s) whilst facing away from the Game window screen, using a heavy object to hold down certain key(s), passive class skills and/or skill summons (including class summons and/or boss soul summons). Punishments for the usage of third-party SOFTWARE constitutes under Hacking; where punishments listed for Botting will not be applicable for software usage.

I completely understand that the AriesMS Staff cannot just take my word for it, which is why I will try to explain my innocence to the best of my ability and have already provided all proof that I believe is relevant to my case, and will be more than happy to cooperate should the Staff require any more information that I have not already provided.

To elaborate(or maybe for certain points, re-elaborate), The bot tests I was issued on Reoc were captcha tests instead of the Violetta tests, both of which I am relatively familiar with as a player that manually farms/trains on my main character. Why this matters in my opinion is that unlike Violetta tests, captcha-type tests do not give the player a 15 second grace period to prepare for the bot test that is about to happen, and once the dialogue box for the captcha-test pops up, the player is unable to do anything with their characters, and the only thing the player can do is interact with the dialogue box for the captcha test. I'm bringing this up to emphasize that the position of Reoc in my attached images as proof is the actual position of the character for the majority of the duration of my training session. (With the exception of the few seconds or minutes that it may have been knocked off by an AFK mob or Elite mob, where it could end up being knocked off of the platform it is seen to be standing on in the images, but of course I move Reoc back to the platform whenever I can as it is the safe spot for Kishin/HS mules on Labyrinth Cavern that I can say with confidence basically everybody who trains there uses, regardless of whether the Kishin/HS mules are their own mules on separate devices OR if they were to buy said services from other players.)
Meaning, there is no way that I could have moved Reoc into a less suspicious position before I took the pictures as the bot test prompt was still on-screen, and I took the pictures with the intent of using them as proof should an issue like this arise, but I am again saddened to see that they did not seem to help with my initial ban appeal at all.


Throughout my training session, I was also being diligent by ensuring that no passive/toggled abilities that can damage monsters were turned on (in this case for a Kanna, I made sure Circle of Suppression was turned off, which is evident in the two images I attached.)

With that in mind, I would like to bring up and emphasize a few key points in why I am confident that I did not do anything that constitutes as 'botting'. I am not sure if the Staff team is able to verify, but as I have stated that the only possible mob that Reoc's Kishin could possibly hit while set up in that position is the AFK mob. If a way of verifying the total damage done by Reoc in the map is possible, I would like to bring up the fact that it would be miniscule, as it is a Kanna with about 16k stat, maybe 17k at MOST, and it clearly wasn't doing outrageously high damage(thought I would mention as I've seen counts of people getting banned for doing unreasonable amounts of damage for the funding they have) and I believe this can prove that Reoc was not used to bot in a way where it is set up to kill the monsters in the map without any manual input, which is what I believe is the reason for why botting is such a serious offense, as 'botting' would be used to make the character do a set of pre-determined tasks without any manual input from the player; giving the player an unfair advantage. If possible, I would like to also prove that I was not using a script or anything similar to have Kishin be activated automatically, which I understand also counts as 'botting', by requesting that the staff look into the intervals between each Kishin activation on Reoc. The intervals should be inconsistent and wildly varying, as it is manual input and I only manually activate it on the separate device whenever I notice that Kishin has expired. (Again, not sure if this is something that is possible for the staff to investigate, but I'll try my luck bringing it up anyway, in the event that it is possible.) Also, unsure about whether this matters, but Reoc's account actually was not mine to begin with, and I was given access to it after the original owner had quit earlier this year, in April or May I believe. I chose to use this account as a Kishin mule because Reoc already had 1.2k AF on it, and since I was training in EArc, an AF map, I figured it would be better to use this character since it is way less likely that it would die instead of a random level 200 Kishin mule. The original owner and I do not reside in the same country, and we only met through AriesMS. (Not sure if this detail provides insight on anything, but I just want to come clean.)

With that, hopefully I have emphasized enough on whatever points I have to be able to prove my innocence and to show that I was not using Reoc to do anything that might be considered to be botting.

I've had a good run with AriesMS over the last year, I first created my AriesMS account in 2016, though I only played for 1-2 months, I continued to vote for the server through the 4-5 years of me being inactive (I have over a thousand VP to prove this) and finally came back to play long-term in July 2020, exactly a year ago. I'd like to think that all this time, I've been a rule-abiding, free to play player that plays the game with honesty, and I try to be diligent in regards to whatever act is not allowed in the server. I have done endless hours of manual MP, a bit of FPQ and sold a bunch of leech once I could start doing so to make honest profits here, and I definitely did not spend all that hard work just to end up violating the ToS and losing everything. I am just trying to make a point that even though I am a free to play player who does not support the server in a direct manner, I have also not resorted to involve myself with 'botting' as a way to profit. I know that the next thing I'm about to say will most likely not be taken into consideration, but I'd like to just point out that anyone who knows me would know that as a player, I'm as clean as it gets and today I woke up to a bunch of concerned messages regarding my situation, and I appreciate you all.

I believe that I am truly innocent in this case, as I have been for the entire time I have been playing AriesMS. This is probably my final attempt to do what I can to be able to play AriesMS like I used to, I do not know what to expect from this but regardless of the outcome, I'd like to thank the Staff(s) involved for taking the time in re-reviewing my case and hopefully look at things from a different perspective than before.


Screenshot of Ban Message: Will be attaching the link to my previously denied ban appeal instead, to reduce the likelihood of confusion as a result of posting the same link multiple times to the related images. https://elluel.net/index.php?threads/reoc-ban-appeal.26379/

According to our logs, you failed to respond to 2 consecutive bot tests.

Failing to respond meant that there were no attempts to answer the bot test for both instances.

Our decision is final.

Denied.
 
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