Regard botting

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sad1503

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WARNING: Wall of text from some no one, but if you found yourself a reason to open this thread, I beg you some minutes.

To begin with, I need to say that I have spent a long enough time with this game, and a decent time in the technology field, to know that botting can never really be stopped. That is something even Nexon failed to achieve with all that resources, so it would be unreasonable to expect much more from you guys, but I do believe there are measures that can be taken to reduce the number of botters. In case the staff team is already working on it, then please pardon my rudeness.

First of all, it seems to me that the current botcheck/replying system has way too many flaws. There are already posts about the problem, so I will refer to them here. Generally, relying on specific rules/conditions to issue a ban would only create a situation where it allows botters to abuse them in some way. So I propose that bans should be executed strictly based on GMs’ intuition, that and that only. The staff should have the power to carry out the punishments whenever they see fit, not to be hindered by their own rules, or worry about the consequences. Yes, people will moan and whine, but given time they will accept it, seeing the positive results. That’s what Valve did with CS:GO, and Blizzard did with WOW. They couldn’t end all hacks and bots, but they cut down a significant number. And to be honest, most Maplestory so called hackers are just kids who bought the script online, so I doubt that they have fully automated procedures to create new accounts from scratch. So unlike what people usually think, I believe each and every ban does have its meaning.

Also, I would say that nowadays most people bots for profit instead of funding their characters. That explains why the number of botters in this server increases tremendously along with its popularity. Buying the software costs around 20$ a month or so, therefore if it was harder to do rmt here than in GMS, they would soon lose interest and run back to it. A solution I can suggest is applying trade bans to all newly created accounts, for a certain time period, 30 days for example. Yes, they can still bot during that time, but it gives the staff team more time to react; and if the account gets caught before the mesos are able to reach the buyers, then all their effort will go down the drain. Yes, they can create a bunch of accounts and do nothing for a month, but then again, it’s not as simple as it sounds; and every banned account means that botters lose an extra month of profit, which will deter a lot of cheaters from trying to make do with this server. Yes, it would undoubtedly cause hardships for new players, but it is not impossible to survive without trading for a month, taking REBOOT as a proof. I believe this is a necessary tradeoff, and the community will find it reasonable; however I can’t speak for all of them, so there may be a need to have a survey regarding this matter.

Again, I should emphasize that all of what I’ve proposed definitely cannot end all botting, as there is always someone out there who will find a way, but I trust that at least it will make many script users on this server find it harder to survive.
 

Kurimi

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Jul 20, 2018
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I think GMs should patrol more popular maps I don't know if bottters or hackers are part of the economy of this server like global maplestory but it will be difficult to get rid of them even tough this server doesn't have the population of official server
 

sad1503

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When I was CM this was very common with botters, there is not much the staff team can do because there is no hard evidence of them botting. We give them 2 minutes to respond or a bot test, if they pass both then they are fine.

I've suggested to Nova to block some of the macro programs and talked to Mr. X about it some and Mr. X was correct when he said there are so many macro programs out there that it would be hard to block them all and stop botting. Overall the staff team is aware of this issue.
The thing is, it's not about whether they patrol those maps or not.
Even if they see people bots there with their own eyes, they can't take actions because they don't have "a hard evidence", which in this case, is a botcheck.
Pretty much every normal human being can understand what's going on looking at those bots for a minute, it really baffles me why they make it harder for themselves with all that procedures.
Ofc there will be cases of false bans, but I don't think there will be many, and they can always file an appeal if they're truly innocent. Botters won't bother doing that.
 

Satou

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Jul 20, 2018
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A trade disable for a period of time sounds good. A month (althu I find a bit too long? no clue but seems fit) seems to be fine even for new players. New players can understand the mechanics of Aries b4 looking for leeching service, but what about auction house?

The botting report post have some serious bad video quality, even I have some trouble telling whether is it a bot or not. Yes, I agree with your suggestion that the ban should be based on the GM intuition and lets not forget that Msea banned over 200+ kannas (which was fine at first but later unban, terrible mistake, no commitment). Measures should also be taken that they do not set foot in Aries.

Actually does Aries have access to know how many characters we have in-game and their ign as well as the date the account was created? Because I think they kinda do know.
 
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sad1503

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Actually does Aries have access to know how many characters we have in-game and their ign as well as the date the account was created? Because I think they kinda do know.
They probably can.
Basically its the same as what they've been doing with voting system, keeping track of players' last vote time.
Moreover, trade bans if somehow got implemented should mean that AH is also out of question during that time, because anyone can easily abuse it to transfer mesos. However, technical issues aside, disabling AH for new players will meet with a lot of disapproval, and thats my main concern.
 

JamesIron

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Jul 29, 2018
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A month huh..would make sense in gms possibly but people who come aries came to get stronger quicker.
 

Yuria

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Jul 19, 2018
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Do keep in mind that the first source of money for the freshest of players would often be from selling VP. Disabling trade for a month will strangle new players because it means they can only earn money through pure meso drops, especially if even the use of auction house is disabled (even if you self-craft a full set of drop-gear and farm the mesos needed for familiars, you can't sell off the boxes, and you'd probably be short of spell traces as well).

I believe the one of the reason why botters are much more rampant is due to the shortage of staff who can ban or process the reports, often taking a week or 2 to process a botting report. To relieve this I like to propose the following:

1. Allowing chalkboards to be used to replace "verbal calls" for bot reporting

Currently we are required to record a video and call out to them and claim that we are reporting them if they are not going to respond. I believe this is inefficient, because as what some users on the previous forums have pointed out, some of these AFK farmers have external chat window open, and will stop to respond if they see such a thing. Furthermore some "advanced" botters that use programs may read packets to check if a user has spoken, and then reply an arbitrary "no", as what was reported in this thread.

By the TOS, you are required to be actively farming and hitting a monster, this implies that you are looking at the map. I propose that we allow Chalkboards to be used as a replacement for "verbal calls", because if a player suddenly walks up to you with a Chalkboard asking you if you are there, you should be able to see him. "I did not see the chalkboard" is not a valid reason because you should have been looking at the map when you were attacking.

Granted, this will not stop botting programs that read packets that are able to determine if a player has stepped into their map, but this should greatly cut-down the number of people who are able to "escape" in time to claim that they are not botting.

This brings us to the following:

2. Implementation of lie detectors

I believe this item is in the game-files (ID 02190000).
This item triggers the botcheck test, and disconnects the target if they fail (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

Understandably this item can be abused by malicious users to kick other people from maps to take over them. In the original GMS or MSEA this item was initially sold in general stores (or was just very easily accessible, I don't remember), but was taken off the shelves because people abused them to harass other players.

To this I'd like to suggest the following:

2.1 Introduction of Bot Police

Allowing anyone in the server to buy lie-detectors would lead to abuse, undeniably. One option would be to allow only a select group of people to use lie-detectors. Like the CM application section, only players who have successfully reported at least 10 or 20 botters on the forums are allowed to apply for this position.
This provides an "incentive" for players to report botters, and regulars who have proven that they can fight against botters should be given the lie-detector to help them out.

Bot Police can then use these lie detectors in conjunction with their regular reporting to throw failed targets into jail. Bot Police have no jurisdiction over anything else, they only have the authority to use lie-detectors, and cannot issue bans directly.

If lie detectors are issued out this way, they can be made to issue out 1-day temp-bans, or throw failed users into jail for further processing.

2.2 Making false lie-detector usage a bannable offence

By bannable offence I do not mean a slap on the wrist such as a strike or 1-day ban, but something like a 28-day ban, to deter users from using lie-detectors to troll other users. If Bot Police are caught flouting this rule they should be punished further.

If the above is rejected and lie detectors are made available to the general public, then lie detectors should only disconnect the target if they failed the botcheck, and not ban them directly.
 
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Alex

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Jul 20, 2018
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yikes.......................

adding trading restrictions sounds like a horrendous idea.

At the end of the day there aren't really ways to prevent botters. I recommend allowing members of the server to have access to bot checks / lie detector tests with a daily limit + time limit between uses. While it can be abused (trolling, harassing other members) this can be circumvented by having making it so that the bot check cannot be used more than once per hour to a member in a MONSTER MAP and is ACTIVE (Kannas would fall under ACTIVE). Each usage would be ~10k NX (possible small nx sink).

Members who are AFK in a monster map CANNOT be bot checked. To be completely honest it wouldn't be unfair for the server to automatically teleport them to the closest town after 15 minutes of inactivity. This helps clear up maps, and minimize bullshit KSing reports. Members will go into "inactive" mode after 2 minutes of inactivity.

This will do a few things:

1. Lessen the possibility of people who have been afk for 30 years to come back and say "the map is mine"
2. Gives members the ability to contribute to the server + clean up the botters.
3. Possible (albeit small) nx sink

If a player fails a player-sent Bot Check / Lie Detector they can be DC'd from the server + flagged for staff review. (I believe CM's have the ability to send Bot Checks that can ban?)

I feel like this method would be something feasible.
 

Poro

Active member
2. Implementation of lie detectors

I believe this item is in the game-files (ID 02190000).
This item triggers the botcheck test, and disconnects the target if they fail (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

Understandably this item can be abused by malicious users to kick other people from maps to take over them. In the original GMS or MSEA this item was initially sold in general stores (or was just very easily accessible, I don't remember), but was taken off the shelves because people abused them to harass other players.

This would change nothing. There are already bot tests automatically being triggered if certain conditions are met and they already bypass those. I don't believe adding more bot tests would change anything except to stall any botters for a few seconds.
 

sad1503

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The chalkboards idea is very promising I have to admit; but then again, it's just replacing a condition with another. It will work great for the time being, yes, but unless people can come up with new methods all the time, eventually botters will find a way to get around it.

Its true that we don't have enough staff members to handle reports regularly, and implement the "bot police" system may seem to fix that. However, as I mentioned in the original post, based on what Eki and Poro ^ had said, the current botcheck doesn't prove to be efficient. But then again, humans' intuition is what makes us so much greater than computers. You don't need fixed proof to report/issue a ban, as long as you have your reasoning, things can be flexible. If "bot police" becomes a thing, then they should also be able to perform their duties based on their own judgement. Sounds very much like dictatorship, but it's necessary.

Trade bans may seem like a very bold move, I know. But I also believe that we can't follow the same old road as many other servers, and expect a different outcome. Therefore, big changes are required.

I did forget that this is a private server though. Therefore a 30 days restrictions may be a little bit too much, maybe 2-3 weaks? Any less then it will fail to have any effect on the situation.
 
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Eep

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Aug 4, 2018
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The chalkboards idea is very promising I have to admit; but then again, it's just replacing a condition with another. It will work great for the time being, yes, but unless people can come up with new methods all the time, eventually botters will find a way to get around it.

Its true that we don't have enough staff members to handle reports regularly, and implement the "bot police" system may seem to fix that. However, as I mentioned in the original post, based on what Eki and Poro ^ had said, the current botcheck doesn't prove to be efficient. But then again, humans' intuition is what makes us so much greater than computers. You don't need fixed proof to report/issue a ban, as long as you have your reasoning, things can be flexible. If "bot police" becomes a thing, then they should also be able to perform their duties based on their own judgement. Sounds very much like dictatorship, but it's necessary.

Trade bans may seem like a very bold move, I know. But I also believe that we can't follow the same old road as many other servers, and expect a different outcome. Therefore, big changes are required.

I did forget that this is a private server though. Therefore a 30 days restrictions may be a little bit too much, maybe 2-3 weaks? Any less then it will fail to have any effect on the situation.

I'm new (been playing for a month) and I would've quit the second I learned I wouldn't be able to trade for a set period of time. Personally, I wouldn't even settle for a week and I'm sure many players would feel the same way. I strongly believe its a bad idea. It could work for a day or two though but I don't feel it would have the desired effect against botting.

As for botters, I think a small team of Bot Busters -yeah, keep that name- would be okay. You can have them apply for the position on forums, pick trustworthy people and give them access to in-game player reports (add a @botalert/@report command for regular players to use when they think they have encountered a botter). I've seen quite a few botters around but since there's no command to quickly report them, I took a screenshot, forgot about it until now and ultimately did nothing about it. Anyway, this command would tell our bot busters the map and channel where they can find the 'alleged' botter and take action. When I say 'take action', I mean I'd also give bot busters a few commands: warping players to an empty map (you know, like the ones old Maplestory servers used to have where everything was black and you could only find hairstyle-npcs) for instance. If they keep attacking the air or simply don't respond then they'd know they're botting. would be enough to get them banned. I believe a screenshot of the chatlog (with no response or incoherent responses) or simply the person mindlessly attacking the air would be enough proof for a ban. This idea is meant to minimize the time taken to get a player banned. Also, 1-3 day bans mean nothing. Botting ruins the already ruined economy in Maplestory.

The way this command would work is: @botalert <<ign>> or simply @botalert would basically send a message indicating the map and channel the player is in.

______

If this is a no-go for the Staff then I'd suggest simply implementing a command to report players for botting. Various reports on the same individual would mean their account is 'flagged' and should be monitored for evidence. Once evidence is found, you proceed to ban them for whatever period of time you deem just. Personally, I'd go with permanent bans. Naturally, with this system, banning would take longer and give botters enough time to transfer their cash easily.

The way this command would work is: @botalert <<ign>>
 
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