Project Revelry Phase 1 Feedback

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Cupid

New member
Jan 24, 2021
3
3
3
Singapore
Purchasing power of early game players vs end game players have been in my opinion "unnecessarily" widened.

MMOs follow a general "rule", the older a certain MMO/server gets the easier it is for newer players to hop on and catch up towards midgame. While for the end game players, progress remains at the same rate (plateaus after midgame).

However following Project Revelry Phase 1, this seems to be untrue.

Early game players experienced:

1)Significantly less RP gained from daily bosses. The easiest 3 bosses' entry counts have been halved. Namely Zakum Horntail and Hilla. While the reasoning was to shorten the time spent on dailies, this has affected the early game players’ ability to gain NX from bossing. Although the same can be said for end game players, end game players can gain RP from hard bosses. This ends up to be a bigger hit to new players than to end game players.

2)A loss in NX/mesos farming spots. Namely the popular Ant Tunnel 2 and Ulu Estate.

3)FPQ "buffs" while intended to lower the duration of a run as part of the common theme of shortening dailies. Is something nobody asked for and has resulted in devastating effects now and in the future for new players. I would liken this change to how MP is now: easy, low entry requirements.

Now I witnessed a big outcry over inno prices, here are the problems with it.
While inno's demand comprise of end game players as the majority, the entire inno economy will be determined by them. Yes, reduced FPQ times mean an increase in inno supply and prices go down, which is not the problem.

The problem however lies in the fact that this results in endgame players though supposedly should have a hard time progressing are now having cheaper options than before for end game equips. And to make it even easier for them the reduced spell trace prices provide another avenue for inno via the spelltrace system, which will eventually lead to further decrease in price for inno scrolls. Furthermore, once said equips are done, inno demand will go down again.

Now why not just sell at a higher rate like 30:1k right? As of now FPQ requires what we call "attacker" as well as "dr". Yes, there can be more FPQs done in an hour however this need for "attacker" has just increased. Hence in order to retain the same amount of profit earned, say 1k dp, more funding of "attack" mules is required although time spent remained the same. This in itself is another problem.


This all seems to lead to one thing, FPQ being dead content. So why the "buff" in the first place? Also thinking about Spyro's statement "If you choose to solely farm PQ, that is your loss."

This is sad to hear, as PQ is one of the two ONLY party content remaining (the other one being party bossing). If PQ were to die off the players lose an avenue of socialising, meeting new people, progressing alongside with new friends. By no means FPQ was the best farming method in AriesMS, MP farming exists currently. I personally love it because it is a party content.

To balance some things out here are what has "improved" for early game players.

4) Slightly better NX/meso farming capabilities. Yes NX/meso farming is no longer bound to low level maps, giving players a better progression when they gear up. There is one problem with this though as the meso cap has been increased to 600% and meso bags seemingly balanced around 600% meso instead of the old 400%, this means that new players must hit 600% meso to get improved rates.

This is an issue as hitting 600% is "easy" but the problem lies with having enough damage to benefit from this NX/meso farming change. Now I dont have the exact numbers or statistics as to how not having 600% and the relevant damage for the higher-level maps affects income. Neither do I have statistics on the income difference if players were to go to a lower-level map. All I know is that it is hard for new players to make up for the loss in damage with DR/meso gear as this would require substantially better gear in the remaining unused slots.

What is intended as an improvement has also come with severe drawbacks.

5) Easier time with starforcing and early progression. There is certainly improved NX/meso farming for early game players hence the progression via starforcing and cubing is improved.
This is indeed a good outcome for this patch.


There are certainly ups and downs for early game players in phase 1 but here comes the kicker, the benefits that the end game players receive in phase 1 with seemingly no downsides. Do note that this is simply my perspective as an early-mid game player, hence my knowledge of their experiences are limited and may be biased. However I will try my best to have objective points.

1) Increased NX/Mesos farming capabilities. While there is no denying that the rates at end game spots (ecrilla, ecorals and more) have been hugely buffed. I agree that there is nothing wrong with having better income than early game players. This gives them a significant advantage as they are able to attain every highly-sought after currencies/item in this game all in one map. (bpot cubes,nodes,mesos,nx). This results in them being able to buy DP easily as they have a larger buying power.

As a result
2) End Game gear seemingly becoming easier to obtain. With more mesos/NX/DP, they can now buy more of what they need at a cheaper price (eg inno, or any other endgame services).

3) Cheaper spell traces, though a change that seemed to benefit new players in starforcing has a much bigger advantage for end game players. I wont elaborate further as it is already addressed under "FPQ"

All in all, what I fail to see and understand with Project Revelry Phase 1 is that seemingly early game players are getting the short end of the stick.

Yes they are benefiting but not as much as end game players benefit from this. Which is why i say that the gap between early game players and end game players has been widened. And that alot of the "power" have been shifted to end game players where they essentially are able to "manipulate" the market.

I dont believe that end game players are entitled to said benefits simply because they are end game. They already have access to content such as pboxes,elite chaos bosses as well as various hard bosses (will,lucid etc)

I do not know what is in store for Phase 2/3 and so on but if MP gets nerfed, that will be another big hit to early game players while end game players happily farm away at ecrillas. Though admittedly yes MP is OP, but every change has effects on both early game players and end game players even though it may be targeted for a specific group.





SUGGESTIONS:

To mitigate/solve certain issues I feel that some changes will be needed to make it balanced to both newer and older players

  • Regarding FPQ, revert the change. FPQ has not been the most profitable farming method before Phase1 nor after Phase1. Profits solely rely on demand of items from the shop which happens to only be inno currently.
  • If FPQ is deemed “too easy” due to xenon/beast tamer ability to fly, remove that feature. One way I can think of implementing this is to make the map before the fly map have the movement restrictions
Example: Map B can be shortened with fly. Disable movement abilities like in Hekaton or jump maps in the map before map B. As the current method of flying is to cast the fly skill before entering portal. (similar to the summon trick in Monster Park)
  • Spread resources available in maps. Meaning have Map A be the best for meso farming but reduced NX or coins. Map B be the best for NX farming but reduced mesos or coins.
At the very least I urge the moderator team to seriously consider each content update and its effects on all players. As an update like this will severely affect player groups as well as the economy. I feel like we have yet to see a big shift in economy as SSB has just been updated as well as safeguard starforcing. Both of which are huge short-term NX and meso sinks respectively, however time will tell if inflation due to oversupply will be a problem. It would help if you are able to provide feedback from your point of view as well



I write this not because I seek to monetary benefits (in-game) from it. I write this because I want to offer another perspective as well as voicing my concern of the overall health of AriesMS and playerbase as I have witnessed people being affected negatively by the changes made.




Edits:
Definitions:
FPQ - Fresh Party Quest (consists of Escape, Romeo and Juliet, Elina, Orbis and Ludibrium PQ)
inno - innocence scroll 40%
pboxes - paragon boxes
MP - Monster Park
SSB - Surprise Style Box
eg - example
 
Last edited:

MoreLeetPlz

New member
Feb 4, 2021
4
2
3
USA
I would just like to add that I don't think that bosses should be account bound, but the RP be limited to the first clear per account. I'm done with my link mule leveling but that's a huge job for any newcomers to the game and they would be limited to making one link mule per day and miss out on those bosses on their mains. I do agree with the RP limitation, I could farm out ~10k RP daily with my eligible mules to buy vcubes if I wanted to and that doesn't seem like the kind of progression model the mods are looking for. They could also possibly instate a weekly/monthly limit on how many vcubes you can buy per account so even if people farmed RP it wouldn't be used for that. There are far easier and more optimal ways to get anything else that you can purchase using RP.
 

e900003

Active member
Jul 19, 2018
939
195
43
Taiwan
think boss reward need add Intense Power Crystal, this item can sell to NPC (more info can look this suggestion post),
since boss entry have change in this update.

about PQ change, think not just change for FPQ,
if want to revamp/change PQ, all PQ should change too,
and all PQ entry limit times should removal, since some PQ doesnt have entry limit,
i know some player said is too easy and broken,
but why not thinking to nerf PQ point to FPQ / balance PQ point gain to all PQ?

i have post PQ revamp suggestion post in 2019 (click here) ,
if PQ revamp post got approved and apply, PQ should have bigger revamp / different then now.

about NX farming, think need buff NX drop again (exclude skyline map), since NX drop got nerf to lower then old NX total per hour.
think AT2/Ulu map is good now, because both map have low level map/mob (AT2), and outdated HP mob (Ulu) now.
 
Last edited:

Spyro

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2018
4,869
892
113
Dragon's Cave
Purchasing power of early game players vs end game players have been in my opinion "unnecessarily" widened.

MMOs follow a general "rule", the older a certain MMO/server gets the easier it is for newer players to hop on and catch up towards midgame. While for the end game players, progress remains at the same rate (plateaus after midgame).

However following Project Revelry Phase 1, this seems to be untrue.

Early game players experienced:

1)Significantly less RP gained from daily bosses. The easiest 3 bosses' entry counts have been halved. Namely Zakum Horntail and Hilla. While the reasoning was to shorten the time spent on dailies, this has affected the early game players’ ability to gain NX from bossing. Although the same can be said for end game players, end game players can gain RP from hard bosses. This ends up to be a bigger hit to new players than to end game players.

2)A loss in NX/mesos farming spots. Namely the popular Ant Tunnel 2 and Ulu Estate.

3)FPQ "buffs" while intended to lower the duration of a run as part of the common theme of shortening dailies. Is something nobody asked for and has resulted in devastating effects now and in the future for new players. I would liken this change to how MP is now: easy, low entry requirements.

Now I witnessed a big outcry over inno prices, here are the problems with it.
While inno's demand comprise of end game players as the majority, the entire inno economy will be determined by them. Yes, reduced FPQ times mean an increase in inno supply and prices go down, which is not the problem.

The problem however lies in the fact that this results in endgame players though supposedly should have a hard time progressing are now having cheaper options than before for end game equips. And to make it even easier for them the reduced spell trace prices provide another avenue for inno via the spelltrace system, which will eventually lead to further decrease in price for inno scrolls. Furthermore, once said equips are done, inno demand will go down again.

Now why not just sell at a higher rate like 30:1k right? As of now FPQ requires what we call "attacker" as well as "dr". Yes, there can be more FPQs done in an hour however this need for "attacker" has just increased. Hence in order to retain the same amount of profit earned, say 1k dp, more funding of "attack" mules is required although time spent remained the same. This in itself is another problem.


This all seems to lead to one thing, FPQ being dead content. So why the "buff" in the first place? Also thinking about Spyro's statement "If you choose to solely farm PQ, that is your loss."

This is sad to hear, as PQ is one of the two ONLY party content remaining (the other one being party bossing). If PQ were to die off the players lose an avenue of socialising, meeting new people, progressing alongside with new friends. By no means FPQ was the best farming method in AriesMS, MP farming exists currently. I personally love it because it is a party content.

To balance some things out here are what has "improved" for early game players.

4) Slightly better NX/meso farming capabilities. Yes NX/meso farming is no longer bound to low level maps, giving players a better progression when they gear up. There is one problem with this though as the meso cap has been increased to 600% and meso bags seemingly balanced around 600% meso instead of the old 400%, this means that new players must hit 600% meso to get improved rates.

This is an issue as hitting 600% is "easy" but the problem lies with having enough damage to benefit from this NX/meso farming change. Now I dont have the exact numbers or statistics as to how not having 600% and the relevant damage for the higher-level maps affects income. Neither do I have statistics on the income difference if players were to go to a lower-level map. All I know is that it is hard for new players to make up for the loss in damage with DR/meso gear as this would require substantially better gear in the remaining unused slots.

What is intended as an improvement has also come with severe drawbacks.

5) Easier time with starforcing and early progression. There is certainly improved NX/meso farming for early game players hence the progression via starforcing and cubing is improved.
This is indeed a good outcome for this patch.


There are certainly ups and downs for early game players in phase 1 but here comes the kicker, the benefits that the end game players receive in phase 1 with seemingly no downsides. Do note that this is simply my perspective as an early-mid game player, hence my knowledge of their experiences are limited and may be biased. However I will try my best to have objective points.

1) Increased NX/Mesos farming capabilities. While there is no denying that the rates at end game spots (ecrilla, ecorals and more) have been hugely buffed. I agree that there is nothing wrong with having better income than early game players. This gives them a significant advantage as they are able to attain every highly-sought after currencies/item in this game all in one map. (bpot cubes,nodes,mesos,nx). This results in them being able to buy DP easily as they have a larger buying power.

As a result
2) End Game gear seemingly becoming easier to obtain. With more mesos/NX/DP, they can now buy more of what they need at a cheaper price (eg inno, or any other endgame services).

3) Cheaper spell traces, though a change that seemed to benefit new players in starforcing has a much bigger advantage for end game players. I wont elaborate further as it is already addressed under "FPQ"

All in all, what I fail to see and understand with Project Revelry Phase 1 is that seemingly early game players are getting the short end of the stick.

Yes they are benefiting but not as much as end game players benefit from this. Which is why i say that the gap between early game players and end game players has been widened. And that alot of the "power" have been shifted to end game players where they essentially are able to "manipulate" the market.

I dont believe that end game players are entitled to said benefits simply because they are end game. They already have access to content such as pboxes,elite chaos bosses as well as various hard bosses (will,lucid etc)

I do not know what is in store for Phase 2/3 and so on but if MP gets nerfed, that will be another big hit to early game players while end game players happily farm away at ecrillas. Though admittedly yes MP is OP, but every change has effects on both early game players and end game players even though it may be targeted for a specific group.





SUGGESTIONS:

To mitigate/solve certain issues I feel that some changes will be needed to make it balanced to both newer and older players

  • Regarding FPQ, revert the change. FPQ has not been the most profitable farming method before Phase1 nor after Phase1. Profits solely rely on demand of items from the shop which happens to only be inno currently.
  • If FPQ is deemed “too easy” due to xenon/beast tamer ability to fly, remove that feature. One way I can think of implementing this is to make the map before the fly map have the movement restrictions
Example: Map B can be shortened with fly. Disable movement abilities like in Hekaton or jump maps in the map before map B. As the current method of flying is to cast the fly skill before entering portal. (similar to the summon trick in Monster Park)
  • Spread resources available in maps. Meaning have Map A be the best for meso farming but reduced NX or coins. Map B be the best for NX farming but reduced mesos or coins.
At the very least I urge the moderator team to seriously consider each content update and its effects on all players. As an update like this will severely affect player groups as well as the economy. I feel like we have yet to see a big shift in economy as SSB has just been updated as well as safeguard starforcing. Both of which are huge short-term NX and meso sinks respectively, however time will tell if inflation due to oversupply will be a problem. It would help if you are able to provide feedback from your point of view as well



I write this not because I seek to monetary benefits (in-game) from it. I write this because I want to offer another perspective as well as voicing my concern of the overall health of AriesMS and playerbase as I have witnessed people being affected negatively by the changes made.




Edits:
Definitions:
FPQ - Fresh Party Quest (consists of Escape, Romeo and Juliet, Elina, Orbis and Ludibrium PQ)
inno - innocence scroll 40%
pboxes - paragon boxes
MP - Monster Park
SSB - Surprise Style Box
eg - example

If your suggestion is to simply request for the changes made to Party Quest in Phase 1 to be reverted, then it is a straight no.

However, if you're able to provide specific details on why certain aspects should be adjusted, I'm willing to reconsider depending on the argument that supports it.
 

Bread

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2020
1,463
270
83
Somewhere
Purchasing power of early game players vs end game players have been in my opinion "unnecessarily" widened.

MMOs follow a general "rule", the older a certain MMO/server gets the easier it is for newer players to hop on and catch up towards midgame. While for the end game players, progress remains at the same rate (plateaus after midgame).

However following Project Revelry Phase 1, this seems to be untrue.

Early game players experienced:

1)Significantly less RP gained from daily bosses. The easiest 3 bosses' entry counts have been halved. Namely Zakum Horntail and Hilla. While the reasoning was to shorten the time spent on dailies, this has affected the early game players’ ability to gain NX from bossing. Although the same can be said for end game players, end game players can gain RP from hard bosses. This ends up to be a bigger hit to new players than to end game players.

2)A loss in NX/mesos farming spots. Namely the popular Ant Tunnel 2 and Ulu Estate.

3)FPQ "buffs" while intended to lower the duration of a run as part of the common theme of shortening dailies. Is something nobody asked for and has resulted in devastating effects now and in the future for new players. I would liken this change to how MP is now: easy, low entry requirements.

Now I witnessed a big outcry over inno prices, here are the problems with it.
While inno's demand comprise of end game players as the majority, the entire inno economy will be determined by them. Yes, reduced FPQ times mean an increase in inno supply and prices go down, which is not the problem.

The problem however lies in the fact that this results in endgame players though supposedly should have a hard time progressing are now having cheaper options than before for end game equips. And to make it even easier for them the reduced spell trace prices provide another avenue for inno via the spelltrace system, which will eventually lead to further decrease in price for inno scrolls. Furthermore, once said equips are done, inno demand will go down again.

Now why not just sell at a higher rate like 30:1k right? As of now FPQ requires what we call "attacker" as well as "dr". Yes, there can be more FPQs done in an hour however this need for "attacker" has just increased. Hence in order to retain the same amount of profit earned, say 1k dp, more funding of "attack" mules is required although time spent remained the same. This in itself is another problem.


This all seems to lead to one thing, FPQ being dead content. So why the "buff" in the first place? Also thinking about Spyro's statement "If you choose to solely farm PQ, that is your loss."

This is sad to hear, as PQ is one of the two ONLY party content remaining (the other one being party bossing). If PQ were to die off the players lose an avenue of socialising, meeting new people, progressing alongside with new friends. By no means FPQ was the best farming method in AriesMS, MP farming exists currently. I personally love it because it is a party content.

To balance some things out here are what has "improved" for early game players.

4) Slightly better NX/meso farming capabilities. Yes NX/meso farming is no longer bound to low level maps, giving players a better progression when they gear up. There is one problem with this though as the meso cap has been increased to 600% and meso bags seemingly balanced around 600% meso instead of the old 400%, this means that new players must hit 600% meso to get improved rates.

This is an issue as hitting 600% is "easy" but the problem lies with having enough damage to benefit from this NX/meso farming change. Now I dont have the exact numbers or statistics as to how not having 600% and the relevant damage for the higher-level maps affects income. Neither do I have statistics on the income difference if players were to go to a lower-level map. All I know is that it is hard for new players to make up for the loss in damage with DR/meso gear as this would require substantially better gear in the remaining unused slots.

What is intended as an improvement has also come with severe drawbacks.

5) Easier time with starforcing and early progression. There is certainly improved NX/meso farming for early game players hence the progression via starforcing and cubing is improved.
This is indeed a good outcome for this patch.


There are certainly ups and downs for early game players in phase 1 but here comes the kicker, the benefits that the end game players receive in phase 1 with seemingly no downsides. Do note that this is simply my perspective as an early-mid game player, hence my knowledge of their experiences are limited and may be biased. However I will try my best to have objective points.

1) Increased NX/Mesos farming capabilities. While there is no denying that the rates at end game spots (ecrilla, ecorals and more) have been hugely buffed. I agree that there is nothing wrong with having better income than early game players. This gives them a significant advantage as they are able to attain every highly-sought after currencies/item in this game all in one map. (bpot cubes,nodes,mesos,nx). This results in them being able to buy DP easily as they have a larger buying power.

As a result
2) End Game gear seemingly becoming easier to obtain. With more mesos/NX/DP, they can now buy more of what they need at a cheaper price (eg inno, or any other endgame services).

3) Cheaper spell traces, though a change that seemed to benefit new players in starforcing has a much bigger advantage for end game players. I wont elaborate further as it is already addressed under "FPQ"

All in all, what I fail to see and understand with Project Revelry Phase 1 is that seemingly early game players are getting the short end of the stick.

Yes they are benefiting but not as much as end game players benefit from this. Which is why i say that the gap between early game players and end game players has been widened. And that alot of the "power" have been shifted to end game players where they essentially are able to "manipulate" the market.

I dont believe that end game players are entitled to said benefits simply because they are end game. They already have access to content such as pboxes,elite chaos bosses as well as various hard bosses (will,lucid etc)

I do not know what is in store for Phase 2/3 and so on but if MP gets nerfed, that will be another big hit to early game players while end game players happily farm away at ecrillas. Though admittedly yes MP is OP, but every change has effects on both early game players and end game players even though it may be targeted for a specific group.





SUGGESTIONS:

To mitigate/solve certain issues I feel that some changes will be needed to make it balanced to both newer and older players

  • Regarding FPQ, revert the change. FPQ has not been the most profitable farming method before Phase1 nor after Phase1. Profits solely rely on demand of items from the shop which happens to only be inno currently.
  • If FPQ is deemed “too easy” due to xenon/beast tamer ability to fly, remove that feature. One way I can think of implementing this is to make the map before the fly map have the movement restrictions
Example: Map B can be shortened with fly. Disable movement abilities like in Hekaton or jump maps in the map before map B. As the current method of flying is to cast the fly skill before entering portal. (similar to the summon trick in Monster Park)
  • Spread resources available in maps. Meaning have Map A be the best for meso farming but reduced NX or coins. Map B be the best for NX farming but reduced mesos or coins.
At the very least I urge the moderator team to seriously consider each content update and its effects on all players. As an update like this will severely affect player groups as well as the economy. I feel like we have yet to see a big shift in economy as SSB has just been updated as well as safeguard starforcing. Both of which are huge short-term NX and meso sinks respectively, however time will tell if inflation due to oversupply will be a problem. It would help if you are able to provide feedback from your point of view as well



I write this not because I seek to monetary benefits (in-game) from it. I write this because I want to offer another perspective as well as voicing my concern of the overall health of AriesMS and playerbase as I have witnessed people being affected negatively by the changes made.




Edits:
Definitions:
FPQ - Fresh Party Quest (consists of Escape, Romeo and Juliet, Elina, Orbis and Ludibrium PQ)
inno - innocence scroll 40%
pboxes - paragon boxes
MP - Monster Park
SSB - Surprise Style Box
eg - example

Project Revelry Phase 2 massively buffed many of the game's merchants (except for MP, which honestly needed nerfs), which includes both Regular and Elite Coin Shop, PQ Shop, and Dojo Shop (for players who simply go to Floor 40, which is fairly accessible to early-game players). The introduction of the Revelry Shop also gave newer players access to Powerful Rebirth Flames as they were no longer locked behind Elite Chaos Bosses (and in Project Revelry 3.1, they were removed from Elite Chaos Bosses as those simply gave more Revelry Points now).

We've also included many addtional updates to AriesMS, including Legion Shop and the prior Familiar Revamp, granting all players easy access to tons of external buffs, including Mesos%, DropRate%, ATT%, Boss Damage% and Critical Damage%. All these buffs make it easier for newer players to farm/access 600% Drop/Mesos, while still having the damage to do so.

Future updates will also include more methods to improving player progression, including the Achievement System Revamp, as well as the Starforce Adjustments, which can be found here. With all this being said, the Staff Team appreciates your feedback, as well as the entire community's feedback.

Accepted.
 
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