Pitched Boss Set (Different method of obtaining them)

Kat

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NOTE: I have edited this post to reflect what is possible and not possible to have in AriesMS, such as the things @Spyro has noted in his post below.

Many players have suggested adding the “Pitched Boss” set into the game in the past, but simply as a boss drop (like how it currently is in GMS). As an example, you can find said suggestion here: https://elluel.net/index.php?threads/can-some-of-the-pitched-boss-set-items-be-added.10251/

The current drop rate of the items in the set is absurdly low in GMS, and if brought to AriesMS in the same manner, players may complain that the drop rate is too low and that the addition of said item was pointless. On the other hand, the Staff Team may not want to implement a new and powerful item set as simply a “Boss Drop” where if a player gets lucky, they can get it on their first Hard Boss clear.

An NPC in Planet Vita, the Paragon Area, could essentially "sell" these items. Each “Pitched Boss” equipment would require a "x" amount of kills, such as 50, from their respective Hard-Version boss plus additional materials. These materials could be things such as Nova Coins, Mesos, NX, and other "achievements" that must be completed. Upon purchasing an item, the "Boss Clear" count and achievements for that specific boss would be reset, so players can purchase another one if needed, although they must gather and complete everything again.

Boss
Equipment Name
Equipment Type
Materials Needed
Hard LotusBerserkedFace AccessoryNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
Hard DamienMagic EyepatchEye AccessoryNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
Hard LucidDreamy BeltBeltNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
Verus Hilla*Source of Suffering*PendantNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
Hard Gloom*Giant Fear*RingNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
Hard Guard Captain Darknell*Commander Force Earrings*EarringNova Coins + 50 Boss Clears
*If the boss is ever released in AriesMS

My Personal Thoughts: I think this is a much better system that rewards end-game players with new items instead of the GMS-system that is reliant on being lucky with drops. This system allows a decent range of players in terms of their gear to continue advancing. Many of the end-game bosses nowadays provide barely anything since full Abso/Arcane items do not drop in AriesMS, and often, other materials (such as A-Cores or Droplets) are usually the determining factor as to whether or not you have a “full-item service”.
 
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empress

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Huge -1
This game is an RPG where drops are also a part of the gameplay. This would remove that element of the gameplay as a whole. Sure, getting a new boss set is fine, but is essentially p2wing your way into an endgame-BIS set really healthy? I don't think so..
As much as I want this, I would much prefer them being implemented as boss drops, even if it means a single one drops every 3 months serverwide or something. After all, the pitched set is meant to be a rare endgame upgrade rather than something taken for granted during progression.
 
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e900003

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-1 for this custom system, because Pitched boss set is end game item,
and make like android upgrade system is not good,
and its make Pitched boss set is too easy getting when have this custom system.

And think can adding Pitched boss set drop to Hard Lotus, Hard Damien, Hard Lucid now,
because most boss bugs in Aries got fixed and boss skills going to GMS-like mode in nowday,
and end game player need have this item getting from those hard mode boss,
so need add this pitched boss set drop to Hard Lotus, Hard Damien, Hard Lucid now.
 
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Kat

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Huge -1
This game is an RPG where drops are also a part of the gameplay. This would remove that element of the gameplay as a whole. Sure, getting a new boss set is fine, but is essentially p2wing your way into an endgame-BIS set really healthy? I don't think so..
As much as I want this, I would much prefer them being implemented as boss drops, even if it means a single one drops every 3 months serverwide or something. After all, the pitched set is meant to be a rare endgame upgrade rather than something taken for granted during progression.
I disagree with saying that this method is "P2Wing" compared to it having it as a random drop that is so absurdly rare that most players who have ran these bosses non-stop on GMS have never seen a single drop. If it were to drop like in GMS, the droprate would so low that the only people who get it are either those who get lucky, or those with ridiculous amounts of Mesos/DP to buy it off a player who has one. In this situation, even most "end-game" players will NEVER obtain one. In my suggestion, any player who does Hard Bosses will essentially have a guaranteed chance to obtain one, albeit with very high restrictions. With that being said, I could see how requiring a 21* item would be considered too high of a requirement, so a change could be that of lowering the requirement to 19*, which is reasonable for ANY end-game player. That would simply mean YOLO Starforcing to 18 (since every "material" item is cheap to replace), and requiring 1 Paragon Box pass.
 

NakazatoJL

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-1 I agree the suggestion isn't p2w at all, but I want those items to come here as they should be (as drop from their respective bosses). Recently KMS increased those items drop and they could increase it further here (it would be easier to find those items here even without doing so as we can do hard bosses more often, an exemple of that is ruin force shield you don't see those often on official here it floods the AH)
 
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empress

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Reading the post over again, I actually agree with Song's suggestion that making the set accessible via the token method seems good. In fact, it is consistent with what has been done in the past in terms of the no drops but exchange through shop method.

Then why even make anything transfer over..? Transferring over stats of a previously BIS item to a new one has not been offered asides from heart. Why would pitched boss set be different? Why can't I kill said bosses to upgrade my krexel to an abso shoulder? My abso weapon to an arcane? And so on..

I would LOVE to not have to rescroll or recube or neb my gear again if the set were to be implemented but I feel that it is best to keep doing how it has been done in the past: suck it up and grind for it.
 

Spyro

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Issues why the conversion will not work:
  • Some current BiS items have more slots than a piece of the Pitched Boss set item of the same item type
  • The difference in item potential tier

That said, it would be better if the Pitched Boss items could be acquired via an NPC as a clean item that would require:
  • Nova Coins;
  • A certain number of the specific boss clears;
  • A third unknown factor that I welcome players to make suggestions for.

Keep in mind that the 3rd factor should be equally as achievable for all classes and should not rely on different aspects of class abilities such as survivability, movement, etc.
 

Sylveon

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This sounds like a stupid suggestion, but why not just implement both Pitched Boss set items as an item available for purchase via a NPC, as well as available as a drop from their respective bosses?

To make up for this, the requirements for purchase of these equipments would be difficult to achieve AND is time-gated to ensure that players with enough time and dedication will get a piece of clean Pitched Boss item of their choice, whereas an element of RNG occurs for the same players that regularly runs hard bosses every 2 days to have a chance to drop an absolute shit-tier equipment with -ve stats, or an absolute beaut of an equipment with +ve stats, counteracting the complete reliance of having to grind/farm for the equipment.

As far as I'm reading the discussion, I personally see merits in both arguments which is why I made this suggestion. As a baseline, I personally think taking ~3months or more to farm for the equipment for purchase via the NPC is a good time-gate, whereas the rate of random equipment drops from their respective bosses can be equal or worse than that of Cursed Books from hWill.

EDIT: Thinking about it more and seeing that - correct me if im wrong - a 4-set Pitched Boss set would be BiS in Aries (Dreamy Belt, Berserked, Magic Eyepatch, Cursed Spellbook), having the earliest time possible to purchase any one of the Pitched Boss equipment can be 3 months, because it would take a whole year for a single player to amass these 4 piece of equipment otherwise, assuming that the same limiting, time-gated factor is used and subsequently consumed to purchase any of these equipments, and if somehow (bless your poor soul) the equipments did not drop from the bosses/were dropped but just wasn't distributed to you in a party of potentially 6 max.
 
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empress

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Issues why the conversion will not work:
  • Some current BiS items have more slots than a piece of the Pitched Boss set item of the same item type
  • The difference in item potential tier

That said, it would be better if the Pitched Boss items could be acquired via an NPC as a clean item that would require:
  • Nova Coins;
  • A certain number of the specific boss clears;
  • A third unknown factor that I welcome players to make suggestions for.

Keep in mind that the 3rd factor should be equally as achievable for all classes and should not rely on different aspects of class abilities such as survivability, movement, etc.
I think the third factor should be an achievement coin of some type based on the run.
For example, if the number of boss clears required is 50 runs, then 125 tokens would be required for the pitched set item.

Missions would include:
1) Clearing the boss (everyone gets one here, a freebie) - 1 token
2) The party clears hard lucid with less than 5 deaths total combined (surviving the bomb is difficult when shell/iframes do no block the bomb) - 2 tokens
3) The party clears said boss within X minutes (like the ranking system for elite chaos bosses) - 1 token
4) The player last hits the boss - 1 token

The numbers can be tweaked around as well as said missions, but essentially time-gating the acquisition of the pitched item so that if you/your party is doing a "mediocre" quality clear consistently, it would take longer than said number of boss clears, while parties/players who cooperate well and clear the boss comfortably would be able to obtain enough tokens to trade immediately upon fulfilling the number of clears required.
 

transformer

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I think end game gears now should take long time to get it like Full Arcane Symbol (do dailies everyday in 1 year+ because in Aries doesn't have any events gives symbol like GMS and drop rate from Mobs are also very low). All new end game gears should become "Untradeable" to avoid p2w / RMT when they had owned all and then tried RMT with it if they quit.
 
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e900003

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About suggestion, i have some things for this:
1. Nova coin requirement :
make Pitched boss set requirement for Nova coin can increase to 5?

2. Add Mesos requirement for make pitched boss set, need 2b-5b mesos requirement to make this set.

3. Hard mode Boss clear count will reset when make equip?
 
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Kat

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  • A third unknown factor that I welcome players to make suggestions for.
Keep in mind that the 3rd factor should be equally as achievable for all classes and should not rely on different aspects of class abilities such as survivability, movement, etc.
Personally, I've yet to find a good requirement for a 3rd unknown factor without making it fair or unfair for certain classes. Examples such as dying at most "x" amount or clearing the boss within "x" minutes all make it so certain classes with better survivability or burst damage would be highly wanted, leaving out "lower-tier" classes out of end-game parties, which is honestly already the case, and there's no reason to further the issue. Many parties who are often recruiting already look for specific classes, such as Explorer Warriors for eCZak (Magic Crash is highly wanted), and NL/NW/Blaster for HLucid since burst damage is required for Phase 3.

Not only would people desire a certain group of classes more, end-game parties would most likely impose an even higher DPM thresholds to join their party since no matter what kind of "achievement" the Staff team sets, more DPM = faster clear time = less chance of messing up. I'd say the threshold for joining end-game parties is already pretty high, especially HLucid Phase 3, due to our Lucid having the Elemental Resistance buff, yet still having 60T HP instead of 16.5T in GMS/KMS,. The only way a 3rd achievement would be somewhat "fair" would if you made the requirement something like "Clear within 7 minutes", which at that threshold, most HLucid parties could achieve. Lowering that number more and more would limit who could join, and who cannot join a party.

I'd personally like the see the requirements of obtaining the Pitched Boss items simply be more "x" amount of clears, and a decent amount of Nova Coins. Considering a player gets roughly 20-33 Nova Coins/day, setting the requirement to 200-300 Nova Coins would be fair, since that's roughly 2 weeks of doing Paragon content.
 
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Spyro

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I think the third factor should be an achievement coin of some type based on the run.
For example, if the number of boss clears required is 50 runs, then 125 tokens would be required for the pitched set item.

Missions would include:
1) Clearing the boss (everyone gets one here, a freebie) - 1 token
2) The party clears hard lucid with less than 5 deaths total combined (surviving the bomb is difficult when shell/iframes do no block the bomb) - 2 tokens
3) The party clears said boss within X minutes (like the ranking system for elite chaos bosses) - 1 token
4) The player last hits the boss - 1 token

The numbers can be tweaked around as well as said missions, but essentially time-gating the acquisition of the pitched item so that if you/your party is doing a "mediocre" quality clear consistently, it would take longer than said number of boss clears, while parties/players who cooperate well and clear the boss comfortably would be able to obtain enough tokens to trade immediately upon fulfilling the number of clears required.
Personally, I've yet to find a good requirement for a 3rd unknown factor without making it fair or unfair for certain classes. Examples such as dying at most "x" amount or clearing the boss within "x" minutes all make it so certain classes with better survivability or burst damage would be highly wanted, leaving out "lower-tier" classes out of end-game parties, which is honestly already the case, and there's no reason to further the issue. Many parties who are often recruiting already look for specific classes, such as Explorer Warriors for eCZak (Magic Crash is highly wanted), and NL/NW/Blaster for HLucid since burst damage is required for Phase 3.

Not only would people desire a certain group of classes more, end-game parties would most likely impose an even higher DPM thresholds to join their party since no matter what kind of "achievement" the Staff team sets, more DPM = faster clear time = less chance of messing up. I'd say the threshold for joining end-game parties is already pretty high, especially HLucid Phase 3, due to our Lucid having the Elemental Resistance buff, yet still having 60T HP instead of 16.5T in GMS/KMS,. The only way a 3rd achievement would be somewhat "fair" would if you made the requirement something like "Clear within 7 minutes", which at that threshold, most HLucid parties could achieve. Lowering that number more and more would limit who could join, and who cannot join a party.

I'd personally like the see the requirements of obtaining the Pitched Boss items simply be more "x" amount of clears, and a decent amount of Nova Coins. Considering a player gets roughly 20-33 Nova Coins/day, setting the requirement to 200-300 Nova Coins would be fair, since that's roughly 2 weeks of doing Paragon content.
These could be added as achievement(s) to other aspects of the game (or to gain additional Nova Coins for instance).

I'm thinking along the lines of Paragon Level x, a certain amount of total stat value, etc.


About suggestion, i have some things for this:
1. Nova coin requirement :
make Pitched boss set requirement for Nova coin can increase to 5?
HEH?
 
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Kat

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These could be added as achievement(s) to other aspects of the game (or to gain additional Nova Coins for instance).

I'm thinking along the lines of Paragon Level x, a certain amount of total stat value, etc.
I really like the idea of Paragon Level because right now, many people don't level up past Paragon 50 because it's an extremely long grind for very low gains. Past P50, EXP buffs no longer work (except 2x Server Event), and although very few people know this, when Paragon Phase 3 came out, it became HARDER to grind P50 => P100. Nova reduced the EXP gained in Paragon Maps to roughly 1.3B EXP/Mob if I recall correctly, but increased mob rate. However, the mob rate increase did not make up for the loss in EXP. Thirdly, Paragon Carnival is extremely difficult as your Paragon Level increases, to the point where it's almost impossible to 1-Shot them at P100, even if you cap all your lines (simply not enough lines on a mobbing skill). This significantly reduces the amount of Maple Coins you can farm from the mobs during the 3 daily Paragon CPQ runs. Due to these things, many people don't bother leveling up past Paragon 50 since they already got their Medal and the important Paragon Stat (Critical Damage%). Providing additional rewards for post-Paragon 50 would be a great way to motivate more players to continue leveling.

An example of Paragon Level requirement could possibly be based on the usefulness of each Pitched Boss item, as well as the difficulty of the boss. As some people are aware, certain items in the "Pitched Boss" set will most likely NOT be best-in-slot in AriesMS compared to KMS (since they don't have Gollux or pottable badges).

Below is an example of what Paragon Level may be required for each item, depending on it's usefulness, the boss difficulty, as well as if the boss is currently available. I've also adjusted the "Materials Needed" section based on what I think is reasonable for each boss, as certain bosses are obviously easier than others.

** = Items will NOT be best-in-slot
Boss
Equipment Name (Reward)
Equipment Type
Apex Paragon Level Required
Materials Needed
Hard LotusBlack Heart**Heart55150 Nova Coins + 10 Boss Clears
Hard Guard Captain DarknellCommander Force Earrings**Earring60200 Nova Coins + 20 Boss Clears
Verus HillaSource of Suffering**Pendant65200 Nova Coins + 20 Boss Clears
Black MageGenesis Badge**Badge70200 Nova Coins + 10 Boss Clears
Hard LotusBerserkedFace Accessory75300 Nova Coins + 30 Boss Clears
Hard DamienMagic EyepatchEye Accessory80300 Nova Coins + 30 Boss Clears
Hard LucidDreamy BeltBelt85300 Nova Coins + 40 Boss Clears
Hard GloomGiant FearRing90350 Nova Coins + 50 Boss Clears




Now as for "Stats Required" idea, I completely disagree with this requirement. The reason being all Explorers/Resistances (non-Demon) gain a TON of stats from "The Blessing of Maple World's Goddess", which increases the stats gained from Maple Warrior significantly for a short period of time. Many other classes also have skills that increase both Stats and Stat%, such as Bowmaster and Wind Archer.

Even if you were to base it off of clean stats, many classes simply have more stats than others, such as Dual Blades and Warriors and Mages who use Shields. These classes have a secondary that easily gives them over 150 Base Stats. If you consider end-game gear sets with over 1000 Stat% potential, they would already be 1650 Stats above other classes. This is why Dual Blades have more stats than a Night Lord. Secondly, this would be prioritizing %Stat over %Critical Damage on a Glove, and %Stat over %ATT / %IED on an Emblem. Thirdly, this would be prioritizing Superscrolled items over Mchaos'd items (which will naturally have less stats, but more ATT).
 
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Spyro

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I really like the idea of Paragon Level because right now, many people don't level up past Paragon 50 because it's an extremely long grind for very low gains. Past P50, EXP buffs no longer work (except 2x Server Event), and although very few people know this, when Paragon Phase 3 came out, it became HARDER to grind P50 => P100. Nova reduced the EXP gained in Paragon Maps to roughly 1.3B EXP/Mob if I recall correctly, but increased mob rate. However, the mob rate increase did not make up for the loss in EXP. Thirdly, Paragon Carnival is extremely difficult as your Paragon Level increases, to the point where it's almost impossible to 1-Shot them at P100, even if you cap all your lines (simply not enough lines on a mobbing skill). This significantly reduces the amount of Maple Coins you can farm from the mobs during the 3 daily Paragon CPQ runs. Due to these things, many people don't bother leveling up past Paragon 50 since they already got their Medal and the important Paragon Stat (Critical Damage%). Providing additional rewards for post-Paragon 50 would be a great way to motivate more players to continue leveling.

An example of Paragon Level requirement could possibly be based on the usefulness of each Pitched Boss item, as well as the difficulty of the boss. As some people are aware, certain items in the "Pitched Boss" set will most likely NOT be best-in-slot in AriesMS compared to KMS (since they don't have Gollux or pottable badges).

Below is an example of what Paragon Level may be required for each item, depending on it's usefulness, the boss difficulty, as well as if the boss is currently available. I've also adjusted the "Materials Needed" section based on what I think is reasonable for each boss, as certain bosses are obviously easier than others.

** = Items will NOT be best-in-slot
Boss
Equipment Name (Reward)
Equipment Type
Apex Paragon Level Required
Materials Needed
Hard LotusBlack Heart**Heart55150 Nova Coins + 10 Boss Clears
Hard Guard Captain DarknellCommander Force Earrings**Earring60200 Nova Coins + 20 Boss Clears
Verus HillaSource of Suffering**Pendant65200 Nova Coins + 20 Boss Clears
Black MageGenesis Badge**Badge70200 Nova Coins + 10 Boss Clears
Hard LotusBerserkedFace Accessory75300 Nova Coins + 30 Boss Clears
Hard DamienMagic EyepatchEye Accessory80300 Nova Coins + 30 Boss Clears
Hard LucidDreamy BeltBelt85300 Nova Coins + 40 Boss Clears
Hard GloomGiant FearRing90350 Nova Coins + 50 Boss Clears




Now as for "Stats Required" idea, I completely disagree with this requirement. The reason being all Explorers/Resistances (non-Demon) gain a TON of stats from "The Blessing of Maple World's Goddess", which increases the stats gained from Maple Warrior significantly for a short period of time. Many other classes also have skills that increase both Stats and Stat%, such as Bowmaster and Wind Archer.

Even if you were to base it off of clean stats, many classes simply have more stats than others, such as Dual Blades and Warriors and Mages who use Shields. These classes have a secondary that easily gives them over 150 Base Stats. If you consider end-game gear sets with over 1000 Stat% potential, they would already be 1650 Stats above other classes. This is why Dual Blades have more stats than a Night Lord. Secondly, this would be prioritizing %Stat over %Critical Damage on a Glove, and %Stat over %ATT / %IED on an Emblem. Thirdly, this would be prioritizing Superscrolled items over Mchaos'd items (which will naturally have less stats, but more ATT).
Good to see the reception of this comment.

I'm curious though, are players really fine with the incremental clears for bosses as the difficulty increases? 50 clears for Gloom per se, judging if it's possible to efficiently gather a group to clear it consecutively for 100 days (if the cooldown is alternate days) seems quite the requirement. Unless this is just to add another factor of difficulty in terms of timegating.
 
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Kat

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I'm curious though, are players really fine with the incremental clears for bosses as the difficulty increases? 50 clears for Gloom per se, judging if it's possible to efficiently gather a group to clear it consecutively for 100 days (if the cooldown is alternate days) seems quite the requirement. Unless this is just to add another factor of difficulty in terms of timegating.
Personally, I know I would consider myself an outlier when I think these are reasonable, while the vast majority of players probably will not. So instead of scaling it to 50 clears (100 days), a more reasonable amount of clears necessary to obtain the items would be 30 for all 4 Pitched Boss items that would be best-in-slot. The reason for 30 clears is because that would make it 60 days, which is still somewhat similar to what people needed in the past to obtain an Arcane Weapon before Hard Lucid was able to be cleared (48 days). I picked 30 clears (60 days) instead of 20 (40 days) because I believe these items should be rarer than an Arcane Weapon, but still within reasonable means.

As for the other items that most likely will not be best-in-slot, I think 10 and 20 clears is fine as those bosses are much more difficult, and it definitely will be harder to find parties for them (if they ever come to AriesMS).
 

NakazatoJL

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Seeing how this idea evolved it now feels much better, I think the "transpose" mechanic it had before made me hate it a lot more.
Still like the items dropping too, but this feels really good with a coin shop and paragon level requirement (Just think this should come with some kind of balance to paragon carnival to not feel more punishing than rewarding, maybe cap the mobs HP)