Hekaton Revamp

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GogudTheMagican

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After V Matrix Hekaton became more class-based than ever before thanks to low line classes capping too easily, can we please get a cap increase in general or at least only for Hekaton (perhaps via codex?) Paragon levels used to do that years ago but now they don't...

Potion use in Hekaton: Hekaton is the ONLY important boss in the game that has potions disabled, why? this causes certain classes to be imbalanced as the game was designed in mind of potions being used we can see proof of this from any other boss (we can use potions in any boss in the game.)

Buff Freezer: Again, Hekaton for some reason, is the ONLY important boss in the game that does not allow buff freezers. WHY? This causes HUGE imbalances with classes that have a very big amount of buffs because like I said before, this is not how the other bosses behave and this is not how the developer's balance around!

I won't even talk about the mobility, It's funny how Hekaton is the only boss in the entire game that does not allow the usage of mobility skills.

I know the staff will delete/lock this because they play thieves, or have some kind of bias because of friends but wouldn't it be more fun to have a fair competition?
wouldn't it be more satisfying to beat people who have an equal chance? what is the point of winning with a huge handicap?

the staff should be more transparency towards the community and give equal treatment(especially what after what happened not too long ago. ) if Hekaton will be more appealing to players with classes that are not good for Hekaton because of the reasons above, more players will be happy, have more things to do, more players would participate in hekatons, bigger class diversity, and it will give a better reputation for the server. instead of endgame content being frustrating it will be a bit more fun.
codex is very problematic too but that's for another day I suppose.
 

e900003

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i think Potion use is already get denied from heal meteor added suggestion,
if approved potion use, think is going fester for hekaton defeat...
and about Buff Freezer, i aggree for can use, because if you dead, you need rebuff some need buff, is very annoying...
 

Poro

Active member
The mobility issue has been brought up again and again in previous threads and the answer has always been the same: The issue is with the map. This also applies for potion lock. Let it also be noted that you should also "be unable to switch equipment, keyboard shortcuts, or use items, pets, and Androids".

Also, I personally know that none of the staff members (aside from Nova, my fellow Phantom player) plays a Thief class so I have no idea what you're basing that off of. If anything, you are more biased than the combination of all the staff toward content options.

While you talk of a "huge handicap", then what is it to melee range players vs long range players like you? Is our short range in Heka also not a "huge handicap" compared to classes that can simply sit from afar in a safe zone and keydown and not have a single worry? I don't see the legitimacy of your argument in this case.

As for low line classes capping too easily, that is simply the nature of the game. Some classes have a strong early/mid and cap out early into late game. Other classes have higher growth (i.e. all hurricane type classes).

I also don't see how more people would participate in Heka if these changes were brought through, there is a player cap after all and its not uncommon to see the participating people reach close to cap unless by "participate" you mean more players who enter and afk for their 2 coins.
 
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Butt

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Hekaton is also the only boss in the game that takes 40+ people 15-25 minutes to kill, and the only boss where the amount of damage you do matters. It's a competition to do the most dmg not give everyone infinite lines let them heal and use buff freezer, who ever has the highest %dmg skill wins. You have to actually think about what you do in heka, avoid meteors lightning etc. But obviously that's to advanced for you and you want to play prenerf hayato with fully uncapped damage when not a single heka feature worked and bash on him for 10 min until you get your gloves. And hekaton is a dpm race wouldn't it make sense that a class with higher dpm would win? Or do you want a jett or mihile to have super buffed damage so they can compete with the 65k db trying to minmax their gear so they can get a higher rank.

Just an fyi, old heka when none of the mechanics worked and buff freezer all pots and parties were allowed we killed it in 2-3 min and that was even more class reliant that current heka. Since there was no way to actually die and the only class that could get close to capping was a hayato, if you didnt play hayato you were trolling. Is this the heka you want back? I'm sure 99% of the community would disagree.

If your rank in heka matters to you that much and you lack the mechanics to do anything in the fight I suggest you Google a dpm chart and pick the highest class on it with a dark sight. Hopefully you won't be too busy complaining that thieves can avoid meteors granted no lag and dark sight actually working (which it doesnt 75% of the time) or that a bishop can heal, you might just remember to press your dark sight. You might just make it past 30th. Or pick whichever trashy class you want and complain about your subpar rank for however long it takes you to leech a pair of gloves when you could just mp for 3 days and buy them without the stress of running heka.
 
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Alex

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Wasn't rope lift going to be added back at one point?

What was the update with that?

To be completely honest Hekaton is supposed to be a DPM race boss which is why so many people take it seriously.

I personally think Hekaton is currently fine the way it is even though I can't properly do it because I can't flip my screen like everyone else :'(.
 

Shaun

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if the suggestions have been suggested multiple times and havent been implemented and staff hasnt said they are going to make changes, dont you think they would have seen the suggestions by now? Just sayin.
 

GogudTheMagican

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The mobility issue has been brought up again and again in previous threads and the answer has always been the same: The issue is with the map. This also applies for potion lock. Let it also be noted that you should also "be unable to switch equipment, keyboard shortcuts, or use items, pets, and Androids".

Also, I personally know that none of the staff members (aside from Nova, my fellow Phantom player) plays a Thief class so I have no idea what you're basing that off of. If anything, you are more biased than the combination of all the staff toward content options.

While you talk of a "huge handicap", then what is it to melee range players vs long range players like you? Is our short range in Heka also not a "huge handicap" compared to classes that can simply sit from afar in a safe zone and keydown and not have a single worry? I don't see the legitimacy of your argument in this case.

As for low line classes capping too easily, that is simply the nature of the game. Some classes have a strong early/mid and cap out early into late game. Other classes have higher growth (i.e. all hurricane type classes).

I also don't see how more people would participate in Heka if these changes were brought through, there is a player cap after all and its not uncommon to see the participating people reach close to cap unless by "participate" you mean more players who enter and afk for their 2 coins.
It's clear that you have a huge bias so I won't argue too much with you but, at first potion use was actually allowed in Hekaton (a very long time ago.)
Map limitation? please. Same with cap increases, theses are things that used to be here in the past

Hekaton is also the only boss in the game that takes 40+ people 15-25 minutes to kill, and the only boss where the amount of damage you do matters. It's a competition to do the most dmg not give everyone infinite lines let them heal and use buff freezer, who ever has the highest %dmg skill wins. You have to actually think about what you do in heka, avoid meteors lightning etc. But obviously that's to advanced for you and you want to play prenerf hayato with fully uncapped damage when not a single heka feature worked and bash on him for 10 min until you get your gloves. And hekaton is a dpm race wouldn't it make sense that a class with higher dpm would win? Or do you want a jett or mihile to have super buffed damage so they can compete with the 65k db trying to minmax their gear so they can get a higher rank.

Just an fyi, old heka when none of the mechanics worked and buff freezer all pots and parties were allowed we killed it in 2-3 min and that was even more class reliant that current heka. Since there was no way to actually die and the only class that could get close to capping was a hayato, if you didnt play hayato you were trolling. Is this the heka you want back? I'm sure 99% of the community would disagree.

If your rank in heka matters to you that much and you lack the mechanics to do anything in the fight I suggest you Google a dpm chart and pick the highest class on it with a dark sight. Hopefully you won't be too busy complaining that thieves can avoid meteors granted no lag and dark sight actually working (which it doesnt 75% of the time) or that a bishop can heal, you might just remember to press your dark sight. You might just make it past 30th. Or pick whichever trashy class you want and complain about your subpar rank for however long it takes you to leech a pair of gloves when you could just mp for 3 days and buy them without the stress of running heka.
I didn't say party play needs to be enabled again, nor METEORS DISABLED. and no, Hekaton is not a DPM race, if you have the most DPM but the class you use is bad specifically for Hekaton then you're not going to be dishing any DPM. the better CLASS wins(with combination of some dpm), not the better DPM/STAT player.
" the only boss where the amount of damage you do matters" that's the most stupid thing i've ever heard, good luck killing any boss without doing any damage.
"You have to actually think about what you do in heka, avoid meteors lightning etc"
Hekaton is nothing but REMEMBERING where the meteor will go since it's already pre set
if the suggestions have been suggested multiple times and havent been implemented and staff hasnt said they are going to make changes, dont you think they would have seen the suggestions by now? Just sayin.

It's obvious that they have seen these 100 times and most of the community wants these changes but gaven up because of ignorance of the staff or bias,
 
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mako

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Jul 19, 2018
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1) For the first point, low line capping issue
- personal suggest that we can add damage reduction like 30/40%/50% to heka, this is more easy to coded then over cap
- reason i + 1 for this, because after we getting GMS flame / 25* this make more easy to capping on heka

2) Potion use in Heka
- I think i suggested this before and admin decide to add heal meteor, and we can eat pot inside dark room.
- i think we remain on current situation.

3) Buff freeze
- i personal think this should add into heka. First, some class that don't have life steal is too easy to die in heka. But if admin no willing to add this, go into my suggestion A

A)
recently for class the keep dying in heka need to rebuff, the problem now is the place that respawn too many heka skill(meteor, lightning,punch, etc due to many afker at this area), the time respawn, you will get hitting by skill and no able to rebuff and maybe you will double/ triple dead.

- suggestion 1: Make no skill on this respawn area to make dead player able to rebuff nicely. ( i don't like this, this cause afker more like to afk in this area)
- suggestion 2: The player that after dead gaining 10 sec invincible buff, to let player can rebuff nicely.
reason to suggest : my point is no double penalty on dead player that make player keep rebuff and dead.

4) Mobility
- Admin reject this issue before, so no point to re-suggest it again.

5) Theif issue
- I don't think can do anything on this issue, this is theif advantage on heka, same like all class will have some op part on heka.

Below is my add-on suggestion to heka

B)
Heka shop revamp
- add GMS flame
- add 16*-20* star force box
- add 21*-25* star force box
- add char slot coupon
- add perm pet
- add perm pet's equip

reason suggest: After 25*, arcane/abso glove will replace tyrant glove, so we need another new item into heka shop
 

Yuna

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Jul 27, 2018
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Regarding heka capping, i don't know how they do it, but if they able to do it, they are losing of dpm, so i can understand few player complaint it. Today we don't talk about this class op this class is trash. My concern is if heka is end game boss, why not make it harder to kill? I can see those top player making easy meso for selling glove. Heka should be sometime fail to kill. When player become stronger and stronger due to equip/class skill buff/new v skill. Heka still look like old time. My damage to heka is 1.5x damage then normal boss. Why no make it to become like normal boss defence? Then solve the cap issue and heka can sometime unable kill. Top player too easy get fund from glove. They become richer and richer.

Add on comment: personally thinking we should remove heka content. Maple used to be a friendly game, but now can say that heka make some player start to complaint each other when their class is losing advantage. I suggest why not we remove heka and adding new content like elite hilla?ellia papu? More party play boss?
 
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GogudTheMagican

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Jul 19, 2018
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1) For the first point, low line capping issue
- personal suggest that we can add damage reduction like 30/40%/50% to heka, this is more easy to coded then over cap
- reason i + 1 for this, because after we getting GMS flame / 25* this make more easy to capping on heka

2) Potion use in Heka
- I think i suggested this before and admin decide to add heal meteor, and we can eat pot inside dark room.
- i think we remain on current situation.

3) Buff freeze
- i personal think this should add into heka. First, some class that don't have life steal is too easy to die in heka. But if admin no willing to add this, go into my suggestion A

A)
recently for class the keep dying in heka need to rebuff, the problem now is the place that respawn too many heka skill(meteor, lightning,punch, etc due to many afker at this area), the time respawn, you will get hitting by skill and no able to rebuff and maybe you will double/ triple dead.

- suggestion 1: Make no skill on this respawn area to make dead player able to rebuff nicely. ( i don't like this, this cause afker more like to afk in this area)
- suggestion 2: The player that after dead gaining 10 sec invincible buff, to let player can rebuff nicely.
reason to suggest : my point is no double penalty on dead player that make player keep rebuff and dead.

4) Mobility
- Admin reject this issue before, so no point to re-suggest it again.

5) Theif issue
- I don't think can do anything on this issue, this is theif advantage on heka, same like all class will have some op part on heka.

Below is my add-on suggestion to heka

B)
Heka shop revamp
- add GMS flame
- add 16*-20* star force box
- add 21*-25* star force box
- add char slot coupon
- add perm pet
- add perm pet's equip

reason suggest: After 25*, arcane/abso glove will replace tyrant glove, so we need another new item into heka shop
finally, a person that speaks some sense (sigh)
buff freezer should be here without any doubt
and more defense for heka is a better idea than to increase cap I suppose but some will still cap .
 

e900003

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Regarding heka capping, i don't know how they do it, but if they able to do it, they are losing of dpm, so i can understand few player complaint it. Today we don't talk about this class op this class is trash. My concern is if heka is end game boss, why not make it harder to kill? I can see those top player making easy meso for selling glove. Heka should be sometime fail to kill. When player become stronger and stronger due to equip/class skill buff/new v skill. Heka still look like old time. My damage to heka is 1.5x damage then normal boss. Why no make it to become like normal boss defence? Then solve the cap issue and heka can sometime unable kill. Top player too easy get fund from glove. They become richer and richer.

heka have buff hp at past, but is too OP then nerf again...
and heka at here, might is KMS-like version(?)...

Add on comment: personally thinking we should remove heka content. Maple used to be a friendly game, but now can say that heka make some player start to complaint each other when their class is losing advantage. I suggest why not we remove heka and adding new content like elite hilla?ellia papu? More party play boss?

elite bosses in elite ch is have at past for every boss, but dont know what reason for close,
after few month only elite zakum reopen, still now...
 
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Lucy

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Jul 19, 2018
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Heka shop revamp
- add 16*-20* star force box
- add 21*-25* star force box
I disagree with adding star force boxes to Heka shop. This makes the game too easy for top 5 players in heka. Even though they need a lot of coins to buy boxes, they can still easily get their equipments to 22* because of the high rank they get every run. Not to mention this suggestion will make all players have to go heka to get these boxes. For people who don't like going heka and people play class can't do heka, now they must join heka or buy from other players who active in heka. I do believe this is so unfair to them.
- add GMS flame
For adding flames maybe they are more reasonable because in KMS heka shop got flames
 
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Kat

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Although there is already one Hekaton Suggestion Thread in the Suggestion section, I felt like that thread did not address the ACTUAL issues inside Hekaton. One example is that potion usage was constantly brought up, but there is more than enough "healing-over-time" effects since the introduction of Aran Legion and HP Recovery familiars.

Table of Contents
*Note: I will not be mentioning Kritias/Invasion Shop Revamp due to it already being suggested by @mako here: https://elluel.net/index.php?thread...-unchanged-the-usual-hekaton-suggestions.420/
  • General Hekaton Changes
  • Hekaton Skills
  • Reducing “Clutter” and Other Unimportant Visuals
  • Hekaton Ranking Board

General Hekaton Changes
Maximum Player Count: 50 → 40
Minimum Level to Join: Level 220
Each Hekaton Piece’s HP: x → x/2 (x is equal to whatever Hekaton’s current HP/piece is)
Hekaton’s PDR: 10%? → 300%
Buff Freezers: Available

The current Hekaton allows for 50 players to enter at any given time, yet a huge majority of those players either AFK or enter late and attack at the very end to collect 4 Kritias Coins (2 if Hekaton is not killed). Adding onto this, having so many players in a map causes lag for those who are actually actively participating, which essentially punishes them because of AFKers or leechers. By reducing the amount of participants to 40, we'll have less players who decide to join late to leech for free coins. If a player wants Kritias Coins, they should be expected to show up at the start, not towards the end. The level 220+ requirement change is there as well to reduce leechers, even if it’s by a small margin. Through personal experience, if you aren’t at least level 220, you won’t be doing much damage to Hekaton, so this does not punish players who are actually trying inside Hekaton since everyone who frequently goes is already level 230 or higher. Hekaton is an end-game boss for players to compete with each other, not for AFKers to come late and leech.

This screenshot shows just how many people are AFKing in Hekaton. Note that this does not include the amount of players AFKing in 1 of 4 “Dark Rooms”.
KeaIQ1z.png


The HP and PDR changes are to make it so Hekaton’s “tankiness” is still roughly the same as it currently is, but classes who hit damage cap easily inside the boss still have a chance to compete for the top rankings. Jobs such as Bishop, Hayato and Marksman all have relatively low amounts of HPM (hits/minute), but have high Damage % skills. This causes them to be somewhat less competitive inside Hekaton after reaching a certain benchmark for equipment. Changing Hekaton’s HP and PDR will allow for more class diversity inside Hekaton, which Blaster, Demon Avenger, Night Lord and Dual Blade make up a huge majority of the jobs.

As for Buff Freezers, during the boss fight, dying occurs often, even if you play perfectly due to unlucky RNG with grabs. Death inside Hekaton already punishes players by reducing the amount of time they have to deal damage. There is no reason why this item should not be available for use during this boss fight. Hekaton should be a difficult boss, but not a boss that has terrible game-play mechanics to make it difficult.

Hekaton Skills Changes
*Note: Attacks that are not listed do not need any changes.
  • Red Punch (from Hekaton’s Left Hand): This attack currently does too much damage (60-70% Max HP?) without giving a chance for players to dodge it. Unless your class has a very mobile skill or instant i-Frame, you will almost always get hit by this skill and end up dying since this attack usually happens consecutively. Reducing the attack speed animation of this attack is most likely out of the question, so a proposed change would be to lower the damage dealt by this attack to 40-50% of a player’s Max HP.
  • Lightning (from Hekaton’s Left Shoulder): This attack occurs too often consecutively if Hekaton casts it near a group of players. As memed by many older Hekaton go’ers, “Tonight’s Hekaton forecast has a 100% chance of lightning”. When players are trying to attack the Left Shoulder, Hekaton uses this attack way too often, making it almost impossible to survive and attack. This is the reason why a huge majority of the players refuse to attack this body part until near the very end. A proposed change would be to significantly reduce the amount of lightning attacks Hekaton can cast in a certain window of time, but increasing the damage dealt by the attack. Changing this attack like proposed would give players room to actually dodge lightning strikes at the Left Shoulder, but still make it difficult by increasing the damage dealt, so getting hit would be more punishing. Currently, the attack does roughly 10% of a player’s Max HP per tick while inside the lightning hit-box. If lightning attacks were reduced by 50%, a change could be to increase the damage dealt to 20% of a player’s Max HP per tick.
  • Grab to a Different Map (from Hekaton’s Bottom Core): Currently, Hekaton can send you to one of four different maps: Bunny Map, Mob Map, Pinball Map, or Jump Quest Map. The first 3 maps are fine as they don’t take too long to deal with (except if your class has low HPM for Bunny), but the Jump Quest one needs to be removed as it takes over 30-seconds to complete and return to your previous location before being grabbed, even if you do the JQ perfectly. Simply getting grabbed into this map for the most competitive players easily means a lower ranking, and all because of terrible RNG. Hekaton’s ranking should be based on damage and a player’s understanding of boss mechanics, not based on how lucky or unlucky you are with grabs.
Reducing Clutter and other Unimportant Visuals
  1. Making all other characters other than yourself on YOUR screen semi-transparent (Will have to depend on if this is possible or not by the Staff Team)
  2. Removing certain skill animations on YOUR screen if it is not your own skill
  3. Removing all chalkboards upon entry and preventing them from being opened during the boss fight
As a few players are already aware, during Phase 1 of Boss: Will, there are two dimensions in one map, but if a player is in the other dimension, their character sprite, as well as their medals and titles, will appear semi-transparent on your screen, similar to all thieves’ Dark Sight. This change was introduced to reduce clutter and make it easier for players to fight the new boss. Introducing this mechanic into Hekaton will make it much easier for players to see what’s going on and where to stand, especially towards the end of the fight when players are grouping up together to kill the last few Hekaton body parts. In the Youtube link below at 2:00, you can see that a few player’s sprite are very transparent as they are in the other dimension, making your own user-interface less cluttered with character sprites and skill animations.

As for removing skill visuals, there are certain skills from certain classes that appear on your screen and restrict your view. Most notably are Bishop and Zero, with their Benediction and Time Distortion skill. Even when you turn “Skill Effect Transparency” for other characters to max transparency, these 2 skills still show up on your screen. The proposed change for this is if you are NOT the Bishop or Zero casting this skill, the skill should not appear on your screen.

As for Chalkboards, many players often have their Chalkboards from either AFKing in Free Market opened, or purposely putting them up writing things to block other players. The fact that the Chalkboard is not transparent and completely blocks everything behind it means it’s just causing additional visual clutter that should not be there in the first place. In the past, during GM Events, Game Masters themselves would ask all players to remove Chalkboards as it causes the same issue there, blocking player’s view.

Screenshot of just how crowded Hekaton can get towards the end
uBtTFYs.png


Hekaton Ranking Board Changes
*Note: I’m not sure if this part of the Hekaton Revamp suggestion is possible or not. Will have to depend on the Staff Team.

Currently, the Hekaton ranking window that appears during the boss fight is dull and does not show anything except a player’s ranking based on damage dealt. As shown in the left screenshot below, all it shows is a player’s name and their world (Scania).
XQNbpR8.png


In KMS, the world name is placed there due to the fact that Hekaton is available for all worlds on the KMS Server. However, in AriesMS, the world name is meaningless. Putting a player’s guild, or their actual damage dealt, in trillions, would make it much more meaningful. The former idea would allow players to represent their guild, meanwhile, the latter would give players an actual number of how much damage a single person is doing. Currently, the damage rankings only show damage ranking position, but not actual damage, meaning #4 and #5 on the rankings in a specific run could have a difference of only 200B DPM, or as big as a 3T DPM difference.

Below are examples of what the Hekaton ranking boards could possibly look like (ignore the terrible editing):
iuX5orq.png
oOAFClZ.png
 
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e900003

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+1, heka some setting need change it (include buff freezer)
and dont know how many AFKer in heka.

about shop, +1 for change, because GMS release 25star at few week ago
and tyrant is no longer for end game equip if 25star release,
if have shop change, i suggest add another useful totem in shop.

and i have another suggest for heka,
please enable all debuff skill in heka, now only have Assasin’s Mark skill debuff enable,
and some class is useful from debuff skill,
by the way, debuff skill in heka is disable since 2016, until now.
 
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Poro

Active member
  • Making all other characters other than yourself on YOUR screen semi-transparent (similar to Will’s Phase 1 character sprite visuals)

This is only possible due to the unique map mechanics in Will's Phase 1 and semi-transp characters are hard coded into the wz files much like reflections work on the floors of any of the Esfera maps.
 
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Kurimi

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I would like to say that there are bugs that are not fixed and we don't know how long will take them to fix to be honest I don't know what are the priorities but if this is approved I wonder when will be implemented like in the old forum where you could find some suggestions approved and stayed there for a long time and probably are forgotten thanks for reading
 

trunkies

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Great post overall, but somethings that crossed my mind:
However, in AriesMS, the world name is meaningless. Putting a player’s guild, or their actual damage dealt, in trillions, would make it much more meaningful
This is a great suggestion but I'm assuming that this is probably going to cause more leg work as it you need to track this stat(that is only probably tracked via battle analysis) and code it into the server name slot.
about shop, +1 for change, because GMS release 25star at few week ago
and tyrant is no longer for end game equip if 25star release,
I'd suggest implementing the new flame as an item to purchase via the shop (although I'm sure this is probably been considered). As to the totem, if not a totem, then a way to extend the time from the 3 day totems implemented from earlier(?)
 

Kenana

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Reckon might be worth a suggestion.

Perhaps to have Kritias and Nova coins be transferable through characters in the same account?

I reckon a population of players have these coins stuck in various characters with too little quantity to do anything in them, probably just sitting in characters collecting dust.
 

Spyro

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Reckon might be worth a suggestion.

Perhaps to have Kritias and Nova coins be transferable through characters in the same account?

I reckon a population of players have these coins stuck in various characters with too little quantity to do anything in them, probably just sitting in characters collecting dust.

For?
 
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