15 stars and beyond

[Hene]

~snip

15* and above is not meant for early game players. It is supposed to be an expensive endeavor to get past 15* as its a source of progression that comes over time. 17* is meant for early-mid game players (probably around 20-30k) and 22* is meant for mid-end game players (using regular maplestory as a reference). If you want to keep it traditional lets just go to the gms system with constant booming to get from 17->22*. I don't think many people who have passed 30k stat like to mp farm cause they've already been doing it for the past 15-20k stat but mp farming is simply the best option. Having a singular system where the best option is always the same thing regardless of what stage of the game you are in is just bad game design.

 

[Adjourn]

I actually don't see how this is unfair to new players. No one has anything that reaches 25 star at the moment, it would actually be equal opportunity for everyone to farm and sell.

If anything, I'm of the opinion we should ditch sapphire boxes entirely and simply adopt the GMS method of Safeguard till 17 star and risk booms till 22.

I mean I would like it to be kept as is, but if not, then I wouldn't mind the GMS method. However I mean this is a private server after all. Of course that doesn't mean we can't follow the very basic concept that pertains to GMS in terms of star enhancement. Well also in response to your thoughts as well, if it were to be an equal opportunity for everyone, then we should just stick to the concept of one sapphire box.

 

[Adjourn]

15* and above is not meant for early game players. It is supposed to be an expensive endeavor to get past 15* as its a source of progression that comes over time. 17* is meant for early-mid game players (probably around 20-30k) and 22* is meant for mid-end game players (using regular maplestory as a reference). If you want to keep it traditional lets just go to the gms system with constant booming to get from 17->22*. I don't think many people who have passed 30k stat like to mp farm cause they've already been doing it for the past 15-20k stat but mp farming is simply the best option. Having a singular system where the best option is always the same thing regardless of what stage of the game you are in is just bad game design.

Even if it were to be for end game players, it's unreasonable overall in my opinion. It's unnecessary to add two new types of sapphire boxes for those in the end game meta at the moment. If sapphire boxes were to stay for the 25* enhancements, then I believe it's unreasonable overall.

 

[Poro]

I mean I would like it to be kept as is, but if not, then I wouldn't mind the GMS method. However I mean this is a private server after all. Of course that doesn't mean we can't follow the very basic concept that pertains to GMS in terms of star enhancement. Well also in response to your thoughts as well, if it were to be an equal opportunity for everyone, then we should just stick to the concept of one sapphire box.

I actually don't see how this is "equal opportunity" for everyone. How do you address the people who have mass hoarded large amounts of sapphire boxes for their own gear from before prices rise then? Is that really an "equal opportunity" for new players where some slightly older players bought at significantly lower prices when price will most likely go up?

 

[Hene]

Even if it were to be for end game players, it's unreasonable overall in my opinion. It's unnecessary to add two new types of sapphire boxes for those in the end game meta at the moment. If sapphire boxes were to stay for the 25* enhancements, then I believe it's unreasonable overall.

Fair enough but i think having a second sapphire box (one that currently nobody can start farming for) if that would have to be the case would be infinitely better than keeping with mp having a permanent grip on the market. Overall i'd rather have the gms system that involves more of a straight up meso sink (although maybe not to the same extent due to how ridiculous some of the estimated costs are for single equips).

 

[Adjourn]

Fair enough but i think having a second sapphire box (one that currently nobody can start farming for) if that would have to be the case would be infinitely better than keeping with mp having a permanent grip on the market. Overall i'd rather have the gms system that involves more of a straight up meso sink (although maybe not to the same extent due to how ridiculous some of the estimated costs are for single equips).

Yea I just think that it should either stick to one box or just go with GMS's concept of how things work.

 

[EAGames]

Off-topic:


At the same time, I don't really see your logic for letting MP boxes be able to protect. All you have been saying is "new players profit" but you don't seem to see that new players for a large portion of their playtime are locked into MP farming for money and to upgrade their own gears. Making these come from another source would not only allow new players to have the option to farm something else but also make it a level playing field as well as introducing a new item to stimulate the stagnant economy with.

Please tell me where is another source of meso making thats equivalent to MP for someone who has 10k stats ?

 

[Poro]

Please tell me where is another source of meso making thats equivalent to MP for someone who has 10k stats ?

I don't think you read what I posted. I'm saying this would give an opportunity for new players to farm elsewhere if such a thing IS implemented in other content. Confining players to 1 spot of farming for a large portion of the game is extremely unhealthy in my opinion.

 

[EAGames]

I don't think you read what I posted. I'm saying this would give an opportunity for new players to farm elsewhere if such a thing IS implemented in other content. Confining players to 1 spot of farming for a large portion of the game is extremely unhealthy in my opinion.

i misunderstood my fault. According to the TS idea. The only players that would be able to farm these 'arc coins' are the ones that are able to farming in Arc maps, so that doesnt apply to the new players since most of them arent capable of doing so.

edit : i also agree that MP farming is cancer and that there are alot of people who have been hoarding boxes since the prices have dropped.
I also think there should be something done about starring past 15* that doesnt expell newer players from being able to farm and sell these items.

 

[Poro]

i misunderstood my fault. According to the TS idea. The only players that would be able to farm these 'arc coins' are the ones that are able to farming in Arc maps, so that doesnt apply to the new players since most of them arent capable of doing so.

I agree with you that the concept is bad. That being said, I am in agreement with the OP that sapphires should NOT protect past 15 star.

 

[e900003]

i think can put to Kritias Shop?
then need sliver coin from Kritias Invasion...

or get coin from arcane river...
that coin can exchange another sapp box (only can use to beyond 15star)

 

[Butt]

In my opinion, this is unreasonably complicating in terms of how the 25* should be obtained. There is no reason to add two different coin shops for starring from 15-25. That's just plain out unreasonable. Why add limitations to the sapphire boxes just to add 2 new sapphire boxes in order to achieve 15-25*? This is plainly an unfair advantage for those who have just started in comparison to those who played for months. You may say that it's easy to get to that level of funding, but that's not true to everyone. People should all work through the same process in earning these sapphire boxes. In the end, I just think it's pretty unreasonable and we should keep it traditional like how its been for the past years.

Edit: I really don't care if sapphire boxes are to not work above 15 stars or not, but my point is, if it were to be the case, then I would prefer to be kept in the tradition that it has been in.

Limitations to the current boxes should be added simply because mp is the only way for players to progress. Need some meso to buy an item? MP for the day. Need to scroll something? MP for the day. MP is single handedly the most broken part of aries and every single player can do it with no more than what 3k stats? People joke and say aries is the easiest server because it actually is. The entire grind from 0 stats to 70k stats is mp. Adding saphs in mp that can 25* would literally break the game. Within a day all the pros would have fully starred items (or atleast 22*) simply because they have endless amounts of meso to purchase boxes with. And who are they buying boxes from? Mainly the mp botters who make new accounts funded to 3k stat and farm all day.

With the current botting problem in Aries any possible way of making 25* items should be behind a wall that doesnt involve farming a specific map so another part of the economy isnt mainly controlled by bots. Now i know you're going to cry "But this helps endgame players and puts new players behind". Be honest with me, how many items do you have that are truly worth 25*ing. You only talk about new players so it's safe to assume you have none. Maybe you have a 24% bpot from cubing and getting lucky. So tell me, if new players have absolutely no items worth getting 25* on why should they be able to farm whats needed to get 25*? Theyve put in no effort and do the bare minimum to have access to the best and most consistent farming place in the game.

A better suggestion would be to put another type of sapphire box that either works exactly like current sapphs or one that prevents boom but doesnt keep the current star in a shop such as Dojo shop. Dojo is rarely done but can be done by everyone, getting more efficient the more you progress. This eliminates the chance of it being botted 24/7 by fresh made accounts while still allowing all players to take advantage of it. Obviously the stronger you are the quicker you can farm, which is how it should be. And the actual legit players with 15-25k stats that are somewhat strong can still run dojo to get points and 25* if they so wish.

 

[Adjourn]

I actually don't see how this is "equal opportunity" for everyone. How do you address the people who have mass hoarded large amounts of sapphire boxes for their own gear from before prices rise then? Is that really an "equal opportunity" for new players where some slightly older players bought at significantly lower prices when price will most likely go up?

The prices of the Sapphire Boxes are totally irrelevant because everyone already has the equal opportunity to farm these boxes. Adding another box that's exclusively for people farming Arcane coins doesn't give people equal opportunity.

 

[Adjourn]

Limitations to the current boxes should be added simply because mp is the only way for players to progress. Need some meso to buy an item? MP for the day. Need to scroll something? MP for the day. MP is single handedly the most broken part of aries and every single player can do it with no more than what 3k stats? People joke and say aries is the easiest server because it actually is. The entire grind from 0 stats to 70k stats is mp. Adding saphs in mp that can 25* would literally break the game. Within a day all the pros would have fully starred items (or atleast 22*) simply because they have endless amounts of meso to purchase boxes with. And who are they buying boxes from? Mainly the mp botters who make new accounts funded to 3k stat and farm all day.

With the current botting problem in Aries any possible way of making 25* items should be behind a wall that doesnt involve farming a specific map so another part of the economy isnt mainly controlled by bots. Now i know you're going to cry "But this helps endgame players and puts new players behind". Be honest with me, how many items do you have that are truly worth 25*ing. You only talk about new players so it's safe to assume you have none. Maybe you have a 24% bpot from cubing and getting lucky. So tell me, if new players have absolutely no items worth getting 25* on why should they be able to farm whats needed to get 25*? Theyve put in no effort and do the bare minimum to have access to the best and most consistent farming place in the game.

A better suggestion would be to put another type of sapphire box that either works exactly like current sapphs or one that prevents boom but doesnt keep the current star in a shop such as Dojo shop. Dojo is rarely done but can be done by everyone, getting more efficient the more you progress. This eliminates the chance of it being botted 24/7 by fresh made accounts while still allowing all players to take advantage of it. Obviously the stronger you are the quicker you can farm, which is how it should be. And the actual legit players with 15-25k stats that are somewhat strong can still run dojo to get points and 25* if they so wish.

How about we get rid of the Sapphire Boxes from 15 stars and from there on take it methodically like GMS? Also in response to your first paragraph, mp farming is pretty much how most funded players, even you, got to that point. You emphasized that Aries is the easiest because of mp grinding all day and it's also a way that botters can abuse the system as well. However, adding limitations wont solve the problem, but instead, it'll stay like how it is now. I mean if we want to fix this problem in Aries, then might as well do something with monster park. Also the dojo doesn't have any limitations of how many runs you can do in terms of the non-ranked mode. I don't know the exact amounts of points earned per completed run, but it's pretty much still considered grinding in that aspect.

 

[numbawanzero]

Yes we should all have equal opportunity
Why can someone with PhD earn more than someone working at Mcdonald??? NO FAIR
Probably response "Its private server / It's a game"
bye

 

[Eatos]

How about we get rid of the Sapphire Boxes from 15 stars and from there on take it methodically like GMS? Also in response to your first paragraph, mp farming is pretty much how most funded players, even you, got to that point. You emphasized that Aries is the easiest because of mp grinding all day and it's also a way that botters can abuse the system as well. However, adding limitations wont solve the problem, but instead, it'll stay like how it is now. I mean if we want to fix this problem in Aries, then might as well do something with monster park. Also the dojo doesn't have any limitations of how many runs you can do in terms of the non-ranked mode. I don't know the exact amounts of points earned per completed run, but it's pretty much still considered grinding in that aspect.

Think the reason why dojo was mentioned was the fact that stronger players can achieve higher floors, granting a sense of progression and giving people motivation to get stronger.

I do see this as an opportunity for staff to relieve some of the progression emphasis on MP and hope that sapphire boxes will not cover up to 25*.

 

[Kat]

Think the reason why dojo was mentioned was the fact that stronger players can achieve higher floors, granting a sense of progression and giving people to get stronger.

As @Eatos mentioned, it would be nice to give Dojo and Kritias (both Hekaton and Invasion) Shop some love and revamp their contents. If the Staff Team do want to go with a new "box" that has SIMILAR effects (maybe not have it give both star demotion prevention as well as boom prevention) as the current Sapphire Box, why not have them in places where you have to actually work on your character to farm instead of farming on a 200K-range Hayato. These suggested places are also impossible to "bot" since the monsters here are actively "doing stuff", a.k.a. boss fights.

Meanwhile, newer players can still farm MP as many of the items inside MP shop will always be needed, such as Superscrolls, Sapphire Box (Pre-15/17*), Shield Scrolls, MChaos and CoGs.

 

[Butt]

How about we get rid of the Sapphire Boxes from 15 stars and from there on take it methodically like GMS? Also in response to your first paragraph, mp farming is pretty much how most funded players, even you, got to that point. You emphasized that Aries is the easiest because of mp grinding all day and it's also a way that botters can abuse the system as well. However, adding limitations wont solve the problem, but instead, it'll stay like how it is now. I mean if we want to fix this problem in Aries, then might as well do something with monster park. Also the dojo doesn't have any limitations of how many runs you can do in terms of the non-ranked mode. I don't know the exact amounts of points earned per completed run, but it's pretty much still considered grinding in that aspect.

This thread is about how 15-25* is to be addressed, not how to fix mp being the only way for someone to progress. You are correct though dojo doesnt have any limitations other that that you actually need damage to progress. I'm not going to take the time to find out exactly how far you can get with x amount of stat but i know for sure that most players under 15k (lowballing alot tbh) wont be getting to floor 40 let alone probably even 30.

Running dojo on a 6k stat marksman with lvl 30 nodes and an abso xbow, which is much more than the average 6k stat player will have, gets me to floor 19 before i fail. In total it takes about 2-3 min and i end with a total of 360 points. (I failed because i honestly didn't know hilla used dr and i hit dr, so i could have cleared her but it would have taken 2-5 min so not worth the clear)

Running dojo on however much stat is needed to get to 40 i honestly don't know will take i'm gonna assume 5-10 min if you can just reach floor 40, and clearing up to including floor 40 gives a total of 2080

Running the entire time limit (15 min) on 56k phantom max nodes dslot arc etc got me to floor 51, totaling 3180 points. Just looking at the current dojo boards for the week people have made it to floor 53, and i know I've seen people up to floor 55. I'm nowhere near as strong as others but decently strong imo so use it as a baseline I guess.

Looking at these numbers it's clear that the farther into the dojo you clear the more points you get and that the most effective way to get points would be to clear up to 40 as fast as possible and restart. (my phantom get to 40 in about 3:30 to 4 min) " but it's pretty much still considered grinding in that aspect. " Nowhere in my original post did I say it wasn't supposed to be a grind, I said it should be behind something that cant easily be botted and would get faster the farther you progressed into the game. Now i don't want to suggest number amounts for how much each special saph would cost, but assuming you run a 45 sec dojo you can get a saph every 8 min. These saphs are geared more towards endgame though so lets say it takes twice as long to farm one of these as it would take to farm a normal saph, so the price could be balanced around that.

Now onto the point that it seems better to run until 40 and restart. This is a simple fix tbh, the stages past 40 have much much more health than pre 40, but still grant the same amount of points. Simply just raise the points u get per floor and instead of raising the amount every 10 floors raise it every floor, and make clearing floor 50 1k-1.5k points instead of 500. Maybe the total would be doubled to 6k for floor 50 clear? idk not up to be to decide tbh. This would allow the stronger players (50k+) to get a large amount of points in 15 min while 40k players can clear up to around 45ish iirc and lower stat players clear however far they can. Everyone has access to the new saph while aiming it more towards the players who will actually be using them. The bots can still bot but it will be extremely inefficient for them and we all know they only care for meso so many of them will just avoid dojo.

While they're at it they can revamp the dojo shop aswell to make it a secondary place to farm. Instead of mp to 70k possibly mp to 30k then you can dojo for x item and mp for x item. What those items would be, no idea :shrug:

 

[Adjourn]

This thread is about how 15-25* is to be addressed, not how to fix mp being the only way for someone to progress. You are correct though dojo doesnt have any limitations other that that you actually need damage to progress. I'm not going to take the time to find out exactly how far you can get with x amount of stat but i know for sure that most players under 15k (lowballing alot tbh) wont be getting to floor 40 let alone probably even 30.

Running dojo on a 6k stat marksman with lvl 30 nodes and an abso xbow, which is much more than the average 6k stat player will have, gets me to floor 19 before i fail. In total it takes about 2-3 min and i end with a total of 360 points. (I failed because i honestly didn't know hilla used dr and i hit dr, so i could have cleared her but it would have taken 2-5 min so not worth the clear)

Running dojo on however much stat is needed to get to 40 i honestly don't know will take i'm gonna assume 5-10 min if you can just reach floor 40, and clearing up to including floor 40 gives a total of 2080

Running the entire time limit (15 min) on 56k phantom max nodes dslot arc etc got me to floor 51, totaling 3180 points. Just looking at the current dojo boards for the week people have made it to floor 53, and i know I've seen people up to floor 55. I'm nowhere near as strong as others but decently strong imo so use it as a baseline I guess.

Looking at these numbers it's clear that the farther into the dojo you clear the more points you get and that the most effective way to get points would be to clear up to 40 as fast as possible and restart. (my phantom get to 40 in about 3:30 to 4 min) " but it's pretty much still considered grinding in that aspect. " Nowhere in my original post did I say it wasn't supposed to be a grind, I said it should be behind something that cant easily be botted and would get faster the farther you progressed into the game. Now i don't want to suggest number amounts for how much each special saph would cost, but assuming you run a 45 sec dojo you can get a saph every 8 min. These saphs are geared more towards endgame though so lets say it takes twice as long to farm one of these as it would take to farm a normal saph, so the price could be balanced around that.

Now onto the point that it seems better to run until 40 and restart. This is a simple fix tbh, the stages past 40 have much much more health than pre 40, but still grant the same amount of points. Simply just raise the points u get per floor and instead of raising the amount every 10 floors raise it every floor, and make clearing floor 50 1k-1.5k points instead of 500. Maybe the total would be doubled to 6k for floor 50 clear? idk not up to be to decide tbh. This would allow the stronger players (50k+) to get a large amount of points in 15 min while 40k players can clear up to around 45ish iirc and lower stat players clear however far they can. Everyone has access to the new saph while aiming it more towards the players who will actually be using them. The bots can still bot but it will be extremely inefficient for them and we all know they only care for meso so many of them will just avoid dojo.

While they're at it they can revamp the dojo shop aswell to make it a secondary place to farm. Instead of mp to 70k possibly mp to 30k then you can dojo for x item and mp for x item. What those items would be, no idea :shrug:

I know what this thread is about, but your suggestion brings another topic to hand that needs to be resolved. "Limitations to the current boxes should be added simply because mp is the only way for players to progress. Need some meso to buy an item? MP for the day. Need to scroll something? MP for the day. MP is single handedly the most broken part of aries and every single player can do it with no more than what 3k stats? People joke and say aries is the easiest server because it actually is. The entire grind from 0 stats to 70k stats is mp. Adding saphs in mp that can 25* would literally break the game." You're basically stating that we need limitations on what star level the saph box can obtain because of this reason. Through that statement, you're basically implying that Aries is way too revolved around monster park, thus you want limitations on the current sapphire boxes. Also like you have stated, no new beginners are gonna be able to reach 25* as they'll mainly focus more on potting and scrolling through selling these boxes. With that in mind, how would this break the game? It's not like the new players would go passed the 15* mark till pretty much end game. Let the pros reach the feat of mid 20*. Let them achieve this through their own mesos that they've earned. I mean regardless this will still keep botters going and this won't really keep them "behind" something cause they'll still be selling many of these boxes, making a lot of mesos. "People joke and say aries is the easiest server because it actually is. The entire grind from 0 stats to 70k stats is mp. Adding saphs in mp that can 25* would literally break the game." In that statement of yours, you're basically implying that you want to have more of a challenge to fund yourself in achieving 20-25*. If that were to be the case, then such methodical steps should've been taken since the start of Aries. I mean I also like Poro's idea, in which he has stated that we should adopt the methods that GMS takes upon enhancement.

 

[Nick]

Before I start, I'd like to say that the things I'm about to mention are of my OWN opinion only.

I think having a new form of safeguard feature for the coming 15* - 25* patch would be extremely unhealthy towards the game. I personally believe that the route that this server has taken so far, with the implementation of Super scrolls and Sapphire boxes (Mostly for tyrants), has made the player experience for this server extremely dull and boring. These, coupled along with the Mchaos/Cog changes (Not sure if any changes has been made since 1.5 years back) Made it such that 80 ~ 90% of end game equips basically look the same.

Now, with this patch we're given an opportunity to change it, not by much, but it's a start. If we do end up implementing farm-able boxes, it might be all well and good at the start, but in the long run, it's just going to end up being sapphire boxes v2 but escalated, with top players spamming hundreds per equip to get every equip slot to 25*. However, I'm not saying 25* should be impossible, I just think it should be harder.

Here's my suggestion. Allow sapphire boxes to upgrade equips up to 17*, similar to GMS's safeguard system. I would propose adding a chance No boom AEES to end end game bosses, namely Hard Lotus, Hard Lucid, Hard Damien, the upcoming Will & so on. This would also be a good new addition to the Hekaton shop, and Eczak rewards (Only if flames are implemented into the game).

My reasoning behind these changes is mainly to reward players who have spent up to years of their life committing to the server, since it's about time end game upgrading stopped solely revolving around early game content. For the new players who are complaining about Sapphire boxes not going to 25*, just stop. This piece of content is for late-end game players, not new players. But even still, I'm of the opinion that end game players should have to sweat for their equips for a bit, not just safeguard their way up to 25*

Lastly, I'd like to add that I'm an old time player who has just recently rejoined the server. I'm NOT end game, and am no where close to finding a end game bossing squad. I'm simply stating what I think should be the way end game content is handled, since the way it is now, it's basically end game players farming for equips, selling it to new players, and buying things from even newer players.

These are just some thoughts I've had, some being years old and some towards the future of Aries. I don't usually make posts on the forums, but this is an exception. Also, it's nice to see some old players still around, hopefully y'all still remember me hoho!